Were Jimi To Rise Again . . .

[jyl]

Are the great artists, musicians, and performers only great in the context of their time?

If Jimi Hendrix came on the scene today, would he be as electrifying as he was in 1967? Or would he be just another good guitar player? If Beethoven were composing today, if Nureyev were a young dancer today, if Shakespeare were writing today, would they be great - or merely good - or irrelevant?

I suppose some of this depends on whether they would be the same, or different. I don't think there really is much demand for another "Moonlight Sonata", but would Beethoven be an indie rocker instead?

What about athletes? The greats of the past in timed events have all been outclassed by collegiate-level athletes, as far as the stopwatch goes. With modern training, could Paavo Nurmi win 12 gold medals today? In a modern F1 car, how would Jim Clark do? How about the untimed events? Would Ali be as great a champion today, would Rod Laver win Grand Slams, would the Babe find the ball and Johnny Unitas find the receiver with the same dominance as they did in their time?

Scientists? Would Isaac Newton be a revolutionary scientist today, or has the field of physics changed so that his talents would no longer be sufficient? Copernicus, Curie, Descartes, Leibniz?

You get the question. Do we get better and better each decade and century, such that the greats of the past would be inconsequential today? Or do we get differenter and differenter, with the same result for past greatness? Would those titans, captured in black & white, engravings, and marble, be as dust in a 16 megapixel digital image?

[red-beard]

Who is the Einstein of today? With Shakespeare , he would be writing TV. The athletes would still be greats with todays improved training.

The rest? Part of what made them great was going against the classic wisdom of the day and in some cases persecution.

[Rick Lee]

Well, I wasn't alive back then, but I'd say Hendrix became a legend after death, more so than during life. He inspired the next generation of guitar players more so than he did his contemporaries.

[Shuie]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Well, I wasn't alive back then, but I'd say Hendrix became a legend after death, more so than during life. He inspired the next generation of guitar players more so than he did his contemporaries.

I wasn't alive either, but he was pretty well regarded by his peers at the time. I don't know how good you have to be to make Jeff Beck say something like this, but ...

YouTube - Jeff Beck-Talks about Jimi Hendrix

[Rick Lee]

IMHO, Jeff Beck is way better a player than Hendrix. I saw him open up for Stevie Ray about 20 yrs. ago.

[sc_rufctr]

All the people mentioned on the OP were stand outs in their day.
There's no way to know how those same people would have performed today.

What made them special is that in their day they were the best. Timing and luck play a part but their "specialness" was always there.

An ex girl friend of mine once said that the only reason Elvis Presley was so successful is because he had the right sound and look at the right time.
That may be partly true but like all successful people Elvis worked hard and always had that voice that never let him down.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Shuie

I wasn't alive either, but he was pretty well regarded by his peers at the time. I don't know how good you have to be to make Jeff Beck say something like this, but ...

YouTube - Jeff Beck-Talks about Jimi Hendrix

Pete Townsend; "Seeing Jimi Hendrix for the first time was a Hell of a lot of pain. That's what I felt. I still feel it.......You felt small and you realized how far you had to go. What was also painful was to meet him afterwards and realize he didn't know what he was doing. He had no idea of his greatness."

[asphaltgambler]

If I recall, even Eric Clapton said he thought his own skills were diminished after seeing Hendrix live for the frist time....

[enzo1]

JH was special before and after..... and there hasn't been another one like him. ahhh the sixties, SEX,dr#gs,ROCK&ROLL and great cars! He pushed the envelope...

[jyl]

I left out artists. Monet was at the vanguard of a movement. If a reincarnated Monet were producing the same Impressionist canvases today, likely he'd have only modest success. Could he create and popularize a new, different movement? Or was he a painter whose eye was right for that specific period only? Ditto Picasso, Michelangelo, Carvaggio, Rodin?

I really have no idea what the answer is.

It seems maybe there are certain fields of endeavour where being "new" and "fresh" is very important.

Fine art in the 19th and 20th centuries has been that way. Being fantasically talented alone doesn't do it, you have to create a new movement to be a "great". Science is totally that way, the game changes every decade. Physics today involves a tremendous amount of abstruse mathematics, there are probably more talented research physicists working at this moment than existed throughout the entirety of the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries, and the level of competition is orders higher than when Newton was alive.

There are other fields where the game doesn't really change, at least at certain positions on a team. Quarterbacks today don't have to run faster or throw farther than in the 1980s, so I think Joe Montana would be a star quarterback today, and if you agree then its not a stretch to say the Johnny Unitas of 1958 would too. Baseballs and bats haven't changed either, since the Babe's time - is there a reason why his eye and hand speed wouldn't be as effective today as in the 1920s? Possibly performance arts like ballet, where (I think? - not having vashian levels of ballet knowledge) the classic moves and aesthetic standards are somewhat constant.

Some sports are so diminished today that I don't think they can produce a "great" player. Take boxing. Can you imagine a boxer, even one with the speed and grace of the young Ali, becoming truly famous, with the state of the sport what it is? Of course Ali's greatness has all kinds of social dimensions too, but use Frazier or Marciano as examples.

And some greatness is bestowed due to death. Jim Clark is a legendary figure, arguably more so that Jackie Stewart. Is that because Clark died and Stewart lived?

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

IMHO, Jeff Beck is way better a player than Hendrix. I saw him open up for Stevie Ray about 20 yrs. ago.

I love Beck, but they are/were different players. Beck is the pinnacle of technique. I think the real Hendrix was more in the vein of Band of Gypsies.

Much like Clapton or even Hendrixs favorite guitar player Billy Gibbons, he would have transitioned out of the psychedelic pop style of the day into a more traditional blues style.

[sailchef]

Originally Posted by enzo1

JH was special before and after..... and there hasn't been another one like him. ahhh the sixties, SEX,dr#gs,ROCK&ROLL and great cars! He pushed the envelope...

"Move over and let Jimi take over......"

From day 1, he was the greatest.

C'mon, the starspangled banner in 1969......whoa...that just blew me away.

[red-beard]

My question is...

If the Beatles had stayed together, would they have transitioned to 70's funk and then to heavy metal or New Wave in the 80's, and then Grunge in the 90's?

[monoflo]

The big thing about Hendrix, Ruth, Unitas was all these people ushered in a new era in their fields - the thing about being first in a genre is big -or at least being recognized as the groundbreaker as in the case of say Elvis.

There might be better players, performers, scientists or whatever but in the context of their times we tend to remember those who set the bar. We also tend remember those from our formative times in our lives -hence for example in my case say-- Unitas is still my bench mark QB --I've seen maybe a coupla as good but better -- not so much.

Enjoy the Holidays,

Mflo

[enzo1]

Originally Posted by red-beard

My question is...

If the Beatles had stayed together, would they have transitioned to 70's funk and then to heavy metal or New Wave in the 80's, and then Grunge in the 90's?

Whatever Yoko Ono wanted

[Rick Lee]

All the Beatles were still alive for nine or so years after their last performance. They didn't need the money, they all had their own solo/side projects and so I doubt they would have kept making music together.

[ckissick]

As for science, the old greats became great because they discovered the next big thing. Newton and Faraday gave us the foundations of standard physics and electricity. Today, there are fewer fundamental things to discover, and they are harder to deal with.

Compared to what's left to discover today, they old problems (except relativity) are fairly easy to grasp, and would have been discovered by a number of scientists. Newton et al were just the first on the scene.

There are still some "next big things" out there, such as String Theory (if it is for real), and the Unified Theory (If there's any such thing). If we could bring back Newton or Faraday, would they come up with something new and life-changing? Probably not. Einstein spent decades trying to come up with a Unified Theory, and failed.

Oh, and Jimi would be considered great today.

[WolfeMacleod]

Originally Posted by asphaltgambler

If I recall, even Eric Clapton said he thought his own skills were diminished after seeing Hendrix live for the frist time....

I think it might have been Clapton, who said to another guitarist upon seeing him something to the effect of "That kid's going to put us out of business"

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by red-beard

My question is...

If the Beatles had stayed together, would they have transitioned to 70's funk and then to heavy metal or New Wave in the 80's, and then Grunge in the 90's?

Great question. Made me think of this slight variation:

If the Beatles had stayed together, would music have transitioned to 70's funk and then to heavy metal or New Wave in the 80's, and then Grunge in the 90's?

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by WolfeMacleod

I think it might have been Clapton, who said to another guitarist upon seeing him something to the effect of "That kid's going to put us out of business"

IIRC the other guitarist was Townsend.

Pete called up Eric to go hang out even though they were not really socially friends at the time.