Ripped off for $2400 - how do I get it back?

[Thrasher]

So I haven't been around Pelican much lately because my wife and I started a business. Think "Cake Boss"... not my thing, but women are willing to spend ungodly amounts on cakes and cupcakes, so why not benefit?


This all started in Sept 2010
Anway, we needed a walk-in cooler and new was pricey. We found a 'nearly-new' unit, with one year warranty on ... craigslist (yep, I know).

The company had what looked to be a reputable website and we could not find (at the time) any complaints. My wife paid him with a check. About 2 weeks later a really crappy old cooler box appeared in our back room (we were building out the shop).

While we were not pleased with the condition, they assured us it would run like a champ and keep everything nice and cool. First a week, then weeks passed and no mechanicals were delivered (compressor, etc.) Then we were getting worried we could not open for business in November because it was getting tight and the empty promises were not going to keep cakes cold.

We bought a new unit for triple the cost and now we're out $10k. The box was stored for us to re-sell when the compressor etc showed up.

Now it's February, and nothing has ever been delivered. Many, many lies/promises first to deliver, then to refund, but he's clearly a liar and cheat. I am now finding many complaints online about him.

Do I even waste my time with small claims? Should I get a lawyer or will I end up losing on the fees (not sure if I can sue for those).

Anyone been thru this? It's our first business and it's going great, but I'd sure like my $2400 back!

Thanks,

Craig

[vash]

mmmmmm...cake.

put a sign on the cooler and put it on a flat bed truck or trailer..the sign should say..____ is a loser thief. link your blog. park the rig in front of their business.? fight fire with more fire.

good luck with the new business.

[peppy]

This is what I did with a freezer at the restaurant. I sent a certified letter stating what was owed and gave him 30 days to pay. 30 days past I went to the courthouse and got a warrant in debt, papers are served and he paid up 4 days before court. I was out $20 for the filing.

[Thrasher]

I guess I left out a few details. It's a father-son scam; Dad lives in Albany NY and the brick/mortar part is there. Sonny boy lives here in St. Louis with no storefront and the equipment is allegedly shipped from NY.

So, no real means to protest locally, but Ive been posting on craigslist that he is a scammer, both in STL and Albany.

Vash, the cake is awesome. I eat way too much of it. My wife even made a model of my 911 for my birthday... was hard to cut into it, but it was tasty.

Peppy - is a "warrant in debt" different from suing in small claims court? Every search I do on that term looks like VA only (commonwealth thing?)
PS: an 82 chevette (gas) was my first car. I had to push it up hills practically, but I did put a killer audio system (for 1982) in it.

[RWebb]

if you bought it as a consumer, file a complaint with your state's Atty General - Office f Cons. Affairs

otherwise, file an action pro se in Ct. where you are; an atty. could advise you or maybe your state has a small biz. support agency(?)

an atty handling it all the way is only useful if you stand to gain > $10,000, b/c fees can easily hit that

jurisdiction exists no matter what - they must be licensed with your state's Business Dept. or Sec. State to do ANY business there

[Thrasher]

Randy,

already filed with state dept. of consumer affairs, but I'd have to look at the check to see if she wrote it from business (LLC) checkbook - but most likely.

Guess I'll have to take 1/2 day from my *paying* job to file in court at county seat.

Must be licensed to do business on Craigslist? um...ok ;-)

[McLovin]

Small claims court is your only hope, but from the sounds of it, it's likely not going to ever net any $$ in your pocket. These sound like professional (or at least semi-pro) scammers and they are adept at avoiding collections.

Esp. since you wrote the check to a "company" not to an individual. Companies disappear overnight. A lot of individuals, even dishonest people, don't like having judgments recorded against them, but no one cares about judgments against a no asset company shell.

Contacting a lawyer is a waste of time and money.

Small claims is fine, but in your case, IMO it's a close call. On the one hand, it is cheap. On the other, it will take a bunch of your time and likely will result in no $$ recovered. I think the biggest factor is whether or not the "company" is still around, using the same name, etc. If they are, they are probably still doing ok with their "business model" and maybe a small claims suit will get their attention enough to allow you to work something out with you. But, if they've already disappeared, you're wasting your time.

At a minimum, this should serve as a business lesson to you and your wife. Paying 100% up front for something like this, without receiving anything in immediate exchange, is almost always a bad idea. There's no reason why this thing shouldn't have been paid "COD."

[Thrasher]

The ironic part is that a few of the complaints are for not for non-fulfillment of delivery, but not honoring the warranty, so they must actually be delivering some of the equipment.

Yes, they currently have Craigslist ads both here in St. Louis and also in Troy/Albany NY. I've posted "beware scam" ads on both and tagged every one of his posts as "prohibited".

I absolutely agree about the COD thing; my wife was acting on her own and I didn't know she was dealing with shady people until it was too late. They did give us a written invoice/receipt, which will help our case (not just a canceled check).

[Rot 911]

Craig, you do remember I am an attorney right? A Missouri attorney right? Why you no contact me long time?

The issue in any suit for damages is not so much winning the case as collecting on the judgment. Does "Sonny boy" run the company in Missouri? Does he have any assets worth going after?

The contract was executed in Missouri so Missouri law applies as does jurisdiction. If he has anything worth going after (assuming there is no protection behind a corporation) then I would suggest small claims court. Cheap to do, normally get a fair verdict, and they will help you with the forms to file the petition, get it served and give you help in filling out the various forms to try and collect on the judgment.

If you don't like that idea, send me a PM and I will get you the name of an attorney in your area that could help you with you case. I know several solo practitioners in the area that will possibly do it for a fee you could handle. Just let me know.

[red-beard]

Sadly, things like this happen a lot. My company was ripped off by a company in Ohio. They were selling refurbished equipment and claiming it was new. I even have e-mails where they state to a direct question that the equipment was new. 6 hours after I wired the money, we found out it was refurbished. We cancelled the order. They refused to accept cancellation. They wanted a "restocking fee". How can they restock something they didn't send/ship?

The sad thing is we could have done business with them on many other contracts, using refurbished equipment. I did use a lawyer to help get the money back, since it was in the $20K region. My goal was to get back more than I would if I had to pay the re-stock fee, including lawyer charges. I states this to my lawyers. I think I ended up $2K better than if I had just paid them. Still lost/spent $5K in process.

[Thrasher]

Hey Kurt... Yes, it did occur to me, but I guess I didn't want to burden you with this. Also, I've been calling this guy and wanting to believe his lies. I set a hard deadline and let him know weeks in advance and still nothing. He's a dirtbag and a good liar.

But now that you've offered... yes, I would love some advice. I realize from reading up that collection is the hard part even in an open-and-shut case like it seems I have.

I actually know almost nothing about Sonny Boy (Guido jr. as we refer to him). I presume they both have some assets and they're still running this 'business'.


I will PM you.

Thanks,

Craig


PS: wonder if any attorneys you know like cake. Bartering is good!

www.celebratinglifecakes.com

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Fight fire with fire... Is there a possibility that they BUY low-grade, clapped-out equipment off of CL to then pass off to the unwary at highly marked-up prices (probably under a different username)?

Lie low for a while, make up some story in broken English about being a poor immigrant whose uncle died and left you his restaurant but you know nothing abou the biz and want to sell off the equipment. See if the scammer shows up to buy the crap and then have five guys come out of the back room with baseball bats (I'm thinking just to hold him in custody but if someone really can't resist the urge to swing for the fences i dunno what the harm would be...) Then call the popo and tell em where they can pick up the trash.

[RWebb]

what you want is for him to swing first...

[id10t]

Whats the website they used? May be some info in the whois that will give you a better way to contact him...

Or you could pull a Ralsky on him if you knew his mailing addy... Alan Ralsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Dantilla]

Before I buy anything from Craigslist, I print the ad in case there is ever a dispute over what was advertised.

[WolfeMacleod]

Originally Posted by id10t

Whats the website they used? May be some info in the whois that will give you a better way to contact him...

Or you could pull a Ralsky on him if you knew his mailing addy... Alan Ralsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Glad to see Ralsky behind bars.
I helped convict spammer Robert Alan Soloway

[cashflyer]

Get a "business" to call him for equipment.
When he shows up to deliver, have a few guys waiting to discuss the debt with his kneecaps.

[RWebb]

if you get a judgement it is often enforceable for many years - in Ore. it's good for 10 and you can renew for another 10

be sure to sue 'em all -- you can then let god sort it out (or go against any one of them for the $$)

be sure you care about this -- 'cuz it IS some work...

[porsche4life]

You own a ballbat?