so you were thinking about OUTSOURCING??

[ODDJOB UNO]

well just had a lil visit from, lets call him capn' nemo, from honeywell. formerly garrett turbines. you know those guys who build APU's(aux power units), turbo props(TPE's) and of course TFE's(turbo fan engines), and he just told me that since the highly educated moronic dimwits of "ma-hog-aney row" made their big corporate decision to outsource to the countries of czech and messiko, they now have over $1-BILL-YON dollars with a "B", of backordered AOG (aircraft on ground) parts , HOT AOG parts(that means basically the damn plane aint moving an inch until the damn part shows up), and the best for last........................



a POO-LOAD of "RE-WORK" parts coming back from czech and messiko, that failed to pass tolerances and quality control(QC)!



and thats how we create JOBS!



what A JOKE!



take jobs away and send offshore, then parts come back all feeked up, and then have to "re-work" them, thereby creating more jobs.



hmmmm WTF is up with dat?

[wdfifteen]

The feds cut taxes a few years ago to stimulate the economy. What is a patriotic company supposed to do with all that extra cash? Right! Use it to rent shipping containers to ship their factories overseas!

[Oracle]

I share your feeling about the whole thing, we're currently going thru the same and its going to be nasty but I have to say that problems in your production line are management faults not the location. I am a manager and its my job to make sure the QA is there no matter where it's done. If not then I'm not doing my job, simple as that.

Originally Posted by ODDJOB UNO

a POO-LOAD of "RE-WORK" parts coming back from czech and messiko, that failed to pass tolerances and quality control(QC)!

[Brando]

Even with the company I'm at... Having 4 major template designs be F'd up on configuration... We're moving away from outsourced and back to in-house, hopefully soon.

[lendaddy]

Growing pains is all. Don't fret, they'll have it down in no time. This work is not coming back.

[JR Indy]

Outsourcing only works if you know how to manage it, from both sides. One moron won't keep it from working, but morons on both sides will. I've outsourced succesfully to multiple locations...quality up, price down....resources better aligned to doing what they are best at....no loss of jobs, actually created jobs by freeing up resources in the US to work on next generation designs.

Get used to it, be part of the solution or else the competition will eat you alive.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

... This work is not coming back.

au contraire

it will come back just as soon as our robots, directed by Watson's "kids," can do it cheaper than the soon-to-be-not-so-cheap human labor abroad can do it, after subtracting off the cost of transport (which will be going up too)

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by RWebb

au contraire

it will come back just as soon as our robots, directed by Watson's "kids," can do it cheaper than the soon-to-be-not-so-cheap human labor abroad can do it, after subtracting off the cost of transport (which will be going up too)

Not likely. This has been bothering me for a long time. If labor cost is THE problem, why not simply automate?

Because the primary problem is HOW we tax, not the cost of labor. Even if I automate, I still pay high taxes on anything I produce, and those tax cost go into the product price, even if I sell them over seas.

This is why we need a sales tax, not an income tax.

[Scuba Steve]

The line of work I'm in seems to be looking more into insourcing because things got completely out of hand because too much was outsourced (and then those companies outsourced the work even more...). It seems to have cost more than stood to be saved in the first place.

[ODDJOB UNO]

as we all know aero-spaced parts hold very very tight tolerances. and then if its a mil-spec. well that grows even tighter.


lets use an APU(aux power unit) for example. parts being made overseas dont jive with parts made here. the parking lot at honey-weird(honeywell) is empty, because of jobs going bye bye to outsourcing. then the parts come back, dont jive, and then they scramble for subs who were let go all in the name of "saving money"! and then the part is reworked correctly ONSHORE to tolerance at at least 3x the original cost of when they made it here!


now i am NO EINSTEIN..................but how the hell can you be profitable and stand in front of the board of directors and shareholders and lay this BULL-CRAP on them????


that is straight from the horses mouth today and that horse stated the individuals who made these moronic corp. decisions to outsource, have just about all taken golden parachutes/retired/quit/split/died!

[jpachard]

Yes, some items will move back here due to their complexity. Others will move back because of IP issues. NDA agreements mean nothing to the Chinese.

[ODDJOB UNO]

my amigo gave another example: of bar-b-ques. ever hear of GENAIR? you know all the stainless steel grills for $149 bucks @ home creepo/lowes? genair figured they would outsource their stainless bar-b-ques to save money on labor.


contracted with chinese for stainless. well the chinese are not stoopid, they bought the cheapest lowest quality stainless steel and now all the bar-b-ques are RUSTING and being taken back to home depot/lowes.



and this damn near KILLED GENAIR!

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by ODDJOB UNO

my amigo gave another example: of bar-b-ques. ever hear of GENAIR? you know all the stainless steel grills for $149 bucks @ home creepo/lowes? genair figured they would outsource their stainless bar-b-ques to save money on labor.


contracted with chinese for stainless. well the chinese are not stoopid, they bought the cheapest lowest quality stainless steel and now all the bar-b-ques are RUSTING and being taken back to home depot/lowes.



and this damn near KILLED GENAIR!

I bought a Stainless grill that started rusting. The problem wasn't the type of stainless. The problem was that they used a regular steel brush for brushing the finish. The brushing device leaves little rustable flakes on the stainless, which promptly rust, at least in Houston.

[Brando]

Originally Posted by ODDJOB UNO

[...] now i am NO EINSTEIN..................but how the hell can you be profitable and stand in front of the board of directors and shareholders and lay this BULL-CRAP on them???? [...]

Easy... Short-term profits went up exponentially. Then when the board members sold out at high share values and the CEO/Exec who helped orchestrate it moved on to another company.

Next board & CEO inherit the losses. A quick buck vs. long-term value.

[cgarr]

Are you guys using Metric units and measurement when the parts come back?

[RSBob]

A news magazine (60 minutes?) had a story on the outsourcing of commercial aircraft service to 3rd world countries. The upshot was, mostly poor quality uncertified parts were being installed - all have to have a certification (one service company heard an audit was scheduled, so they got all the uncertified parts out of the service areas and then returned them after the audit was over). They also use uncertified mechanics and minimum wage labor - or extremely low wage. The chief of the FAA was confronted with the findings and said something to the effect that these were serious allegations, but there was little they could do since the operations were offshore. Maybe the Feds will wise up when a plane load of poor people goes down due to bad parts or poor maintenance. Scary stuff.

[jpachard]

Outsourcing has to stop. Now.

We have become a country where all we do is push paper around and hope to make a quick buck in doing so. There is no long term plan in the US and very little tangible product. We are losing our edge and drive, fast. One only has to look at Germany for example, they are the second largest exporter to China, yet they pay their people well and make fantastic products, for the most part. The US has that kind of talent, ability and resources, we just need to harness it.

This is why we are in the position we are in, most people in the world pay for goods, whether those goods are food, clothing, USB drives or cars, etc. etc. The majority of the world's citizens don't pay for some new fangled "financial instrument" so they can make money. They need tangible objects so they can go on with their daily lives.

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by jpachard

Outsourcing has to stop. Now.

We have become a country where all we do is push paper around and hope to make a quick buck in doing so. There is no long term plan in the US and very little tangible product. We are losing our edge and drive, fast. One only has to look at Germany for example, they are the second largest exporter to China, yet they pay their people well and make fantastic products, for the most part. The US has that kind of talent, ability and resources, we just need to harness it.

This is why we are in the position we are in, most people in the world pay for goods, whether those goods are food, clothing, USB drives or cars, etc. etc. The majority of the world's citizens don't pay for some new fangled "financial instrument" so they can make money. They need tangible objects so they can go on with their daily lives.

Hard to stop outsourcing some items really. We need thousands of "collections agents" for my company. We used to start 40 new people every Monday at each of our call centers, by Wednesday about 10 would be left, the next week maybe two to five remained.

I now just outsource that to companies like Accenture and Sytel to do this in other countries. I've been told flat out that individuals would rather collect unemployment than do this job. So I find people in other countries that are willing to do this. I would hire domestic if I could, but $11/hr + benefits is just not worth it to people here.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by jpachard

Outsourcing has to stop. Now.

We have become a country where all we do is push paper around and hope to make a quick buck in doing so. There is no long term plan in the US and very little tangible product. We are losing our edge and drive, fast. One only has to look at Germany for example, they are the second largest exporter to China, yet they pay their people well and make fantastic products, for the most part. The US has that kind of talent, ability and resources, we just need to harness it.

This is why we are in the position we are in, most people in the world pay for goods, whether those goods are food, clothing, USB drives or cars, etc. etc. The majority of the world's citizens don't pay for some new fangled "financial instrument" so they can make money. They need tangible objects so they can go on with their daily lives.

+1000
Well said.

[jpachard]

Originally Posted by Scott R

Hard to stop outsourcing some items really. We need thousands of "collections agents" for my company. We used to start 40 new people every Monday at each of our call centers, by Wednesday about 10 would be left, the next week maybe two to five remained.

I now just outsource that to companies like Accenture and Sytel to do this in other countries. I've been told flat out that individuals would rather collect unemployment than do this job. So I find people in other countries that are willing to do this. I would hire domestic if I could, but $11/hr + benefits is just not worth it to people here.

Yes, I should have clarified we need to stop outsourcing manufacturing jobs. Call centers, at least in my mind, fall under the service industry sector which I think is fine to outsource as long as the quality of the service does not suffer as a result.