Educate me about Smart Meters please

[lisa_spyder]

Under the previous State Government, Victoria started a mandatory rollout of Smart Meters for electricity.

There's been so many problems to date - bad installs, horrendous and unbelievable increases in power bills etc. Our current State Government is holding an enquiry into the whole process as there has been a massive cost blow out in implementation as well.

There's been some serious accidents due to very poor installs. The energy distributors are contracting out the installs and there is NO requirement to be a licensed electrician to do these. People have been electrocuted (no deaths), appliances have been damaged etc etc.

Then there are the countless number of people and businesses who are getting bills which have risen 20 fold!!! These would have to be reading errors, but the distributors are being very slow to fix the problems. Plus from what I have heard they are very difficult to read unlike the old meters; making it very diffucult to check consumption yourself.

We haven't had one installed as yet either at home or at work, But I am putting a sign on the meter boxes to say "stop - do not fit a smart meter. I decline to have a smart meter installed until after the State Government has completed the 'smart meter' review process. Thank you." (Thanks to a local radio station listener who put this up on their site).

The electricity distributors have been threatening to cut power to those who refuse to have one installed. They wouldn't want to try that with me...

So, please tell me your experiences thus far... pros, cons, power cost increase/decrease (huh) etc...

[island911]

Smart meter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

next up (to piss people off) ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_grid

[Zeke]

They've done those here for SoCal Edison. Los Angeles has its own power company (think Hoover Dam) and I haven't heard that they've converted yet.

Not too many complaints about damage and I haven't heard about injury. I'm sure there have been some falls and some dog bites.

The reading is done now remotely by computer in the main office. I have heard about some increases, but I think we're OK (for now). BTW, the sewage treatment district just upped the rates 50% over 3 years.

[lisa_spyder]

I read the Wikipedia piece thanks Island I'll go read the other link though; thanks.

I really want to know what the people who have had them installed think .

[legion]

Aside from the problems mentioned, when they do actually work, you are giving the power company (and in some cases, bureaucrats or politicians) the power to decide what electrical things inside your house they will allow to run.

Hot day with lots of power demand? Well, they may decide that YOU don't really need your air conditioning. Never mind that granny is staying at your house for a few weeks.

Basically it gives the power company the ability to control what you do in your own house, and by extension, it gives the politicians the ability to control what the power company allows. They are voluntary right now in my area for a rate discount, but I don't know of a single person who has gotten one.

[lisa_spyder]

We're getting hit everywhere on utilities.

Power costs have been steadily increasing for some years now. We've been paying for the whole Smart Meter thing for some years, plus infrastructure replacement/renewal. Now we're going to face more increases due to the carbon tax thing as well. Plus someone has to pay for all the damage from bushfires and floods etc. Someone of course, is the consumer.

From what I understand; we are being encouraged to use less power in peak times and shift our power usage to off peak times. So I guess I am being told to stay up all night and doing the washing etc then...

Pensioners/ the aged are scared ****less about this new system. They are suffering so badly with increased costs that outstrip their aged pension already.

Can't say I am at all happy about it either from what I currently know...

[lisa_spyder]

Originally Posted by legion

Aside from the problems mentioned, when they do actually work, you are giving the power company (and in some cases, bureaucrats or politicians) the power to decide what electrical things inside your house they will allow to run.

Hot day with lots of power demand? Well, they may decide that YOU don't really need your air conditioning. Never mind that granny is staying at your house for a few weeks.

Basically it gives the power company the ability to control what you do in your own house, and by extension, it gives the politicians the ability to control what the power company allows. They are voluntary right now in my area for a rate discount, but I don't know of a single person who has gotten one.

Yeah! That's how I understand it too...

There has also been debate about the security of the system from a terrorist attack view. Lots of debate about how secure or not a system like this will be.

[Hugh R]

They're also headed towards "Time of Use" rates. You want to run your A/C at 3:00 PM when its 100F outside, fine it will cost you $0.35/KwH. You want to do your laundry at 3:00 AM it will cost you $0.18/KwH.

[stuartj]

For gods sake Lisa, stop reading the Hyphen and turn off Neil Mitchell.

[lisa_spyder]

Hugh,

There is a moratorium on time of use here; but I can't remember how for how long.

At the moment, the system is not 'online' so meters are still being read manually as the rollout isn't complete.

It's the time of use thing that is scaring everyone silly. Especially the older people (previously stated). How are they supposed to minimise their usage even further than now? So many of them are going without a lot now just to meet their bills. I cannot find any argument that sticks that supports bills will go down; but that's what our previous State Government wanted us to believe - some bills will go down.

Also, the buyback price for people who have solar installed apparently stinks. I have heard several interviews with people who have spent a lot installing solar and should be getting the benefits of buyback to the power grid; but the new pricing has them disadvantaged.

It sucks...right now when we are facing a carbon tax, people who have spent plenty of money converting to green power (i.e. solar) are being hit in the hip pocket with less allowed for buyback to the grid .

[lisa_spyder]

Originally Posted by stuartj

For gods sake Lisa, stop reading the Hyphen and turn off Neil Mitchell.

Oh come on!!!

Not just the Herald Sun and 3aw on this and you know it.

The government is looking at this whole scheme very seriously now and may even suspend it.

Don't treat me like I'm stupid Stuart...please.

[lisa_spyder]

So has anyone actually got one?

[artplumber]

Happened to us this fall. Waiting for summer to see what happens. Scaled fees based on power useage during peak times as mentioned above. A friend who got hers early summer saw her monthly fees go up by 3-4X.

We will have a double whammy since we were all out of the house during the daytime in the past, but with new little ones we'll have to A/C during the entire day. Can't wait...

[lisa_spyder]

Thanks Peter...I think

Crap this is going to hurt...big time.

[artplumber]

What it amounts to is that everyone that doesn't have to be home goes into public buildings where it is cool in the daytime think malls, museums, etc. Unfortunately, if you have a business to run (ie have to be consuming electricity during peak hours) you're (& me too) stuck.

[lisa_spyder]

I can't really change my habits any more than I already have during the day. We'll get hit twice as the office is at home...

The energy regulator hasn't announced the Time of Use schedule as far as I know. I can forsee power overloads on the grid on shoulder times and either end of off peak coming though as everyone tries to delay running appliances, pool pumps etc. Then that 'pesky' little issue that Legion mentioned will come into play and we'll be dictated to as to what runs and what doesn't.

[red-beard]

They converted all the meters in Texas to "Smart" meters. Our system cannot control the shutoff of individual loads (A/C, etc). That would require controllable breakers/relays. I haven't heard of that being offered here. And none of our electricity providers here have proposed TOU (time of use) rates.

There was a controvery here about the bills going up for people as the meters were installed. Appeaently the significant number of old mechanical meters were failing and reading low. For the life of the meter, they were only 7% accurate and many were beyond their service life.

The new e-meters have an accuracy if better than 1%. Quite a few people have seen 10% jumps with the new meters, but nothing like a 20 fold increase.

As far as installation, the meters here use a fairly standard meter case. Install is drop in. I expect a monkey could do the install. OTOH I cannot imagine our utility allowing anyone but a licensed electrician to do the install.

Having been in the industry, I read all sort of stuff about how great "Smart Grid" will be. But I usually find the people really talking it up don't know how our existing grid works.

[lisa_spyder]

James,

Sounds more encouraging.

We're supposed to get Time of Use. This may not happen with a change of govt; but we don't know yet.

The smart meters we're getting in Victoria need about half an hour for install. I would guess that involves checks etc, but they're not a drop in from what I know. Problems are being reported by electricians who are saying the installers are doing the whole changeover thing 'live' and are in and out in 5 minutes total.

I'm hoping that all the horror increases that people have reported by comparing their bills (old and new meters) can be put down to incorrect reading of the meter or admin. errors. But a lot of people thus far haven't had much joy from their providers when tackling them over this.

I'd like to think the installation problems will be solved sooner rather than later too.

But for the moment the buggers aren't installing one for me...that's a definite.

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by lisa_spyder

Oh come on!!!

Not just the Herald Sun and 3aw on this and you know it.

The government is looking at this whole scheme very seriously now and may even suspend it.

Don't treat me like I'm stupid Stuart...please.

OK Lisa. You want to be educated about smart metering.

This started, not with the previous Govt, but with the one before that. Jeff, arch Conservative, broke up the SEC, a state owned utility, into component parts- five electricity retailers, five distributors, one transmission company and five generator entities, and created a contestable energy market which trades electricity like the stock market. These enitities were flogged off for billions to mostly overseas interests who did their nuts on them and promptly facked off home.

Because this was money for jam, other State Govts followed suite in various forms, and there is now operating a national energy market. This is operated by an entity like the ASX called NEMMCO. Electricity is traded in base load contracts and in a spot market of half hour blocks. Spot prices can range from literally zero to thousands of dollars per KW hour.

Large customers, those with demand in excess of 1MW, entered this contestable market in 1996, IIRC. These customers were followed by various tranches of 750MW, then 160 (your suburban drycleaner) - and now small users like households. Generators offer bids into the market for power and Energy Retailers buy it, aggregate up their demand and sell it you and me.

To measure usage in half hour blocks requires smart metering. And that’s why you’re getting a smart meter. You can thank Jeffrey.

[lisa_spyder]

Thankyou Stuart,

Very insightful, unbiased and balanced account. I feel so much more educated now; I can't thank you enough...really.

You've answered all my working questions about smart meters...you know the ones in my OP.

Such a privilege to have you drop by this thread and educate me on your brand of politics...yet again.