Do you pull a PERMIT?

[Gogar]

Here's my question:

I'm getting a gas-burning fireplace/furnace installed in my old coal-burning fireplace. This involves running a gas line on the outside of the house a distance of about 10 feet, and running intake/exhaust up the chimney.

The fireplace installer keeps asking me if I want to pull a permit, and I don't know the answer. They will take care of it and add it to the bill, (and also pad it a bit for the convenience, but that's ok.) It will also add 4-5 days to the process, and require 2 visits by the fireplace guy, and 2 visits from the inspector.

They just say "Well, we can't tell you what to do, but do you want to pull a permit?"

The electrician was already here and ran the electric outlet and was outta here, never even blinked about a permit or whatever.


This is all I'm doing, I'm not doing a remodel or any significant changes to the house.

What are the pros and cons of a permit? I know the "pros" are that I was legit or whatever, but it adds about 10% to the cost of this job, and 4 days.

Thanks

[kaisen]

For something like that, YES! You are adding a significant amount of liability if you do not. Get a permit

[cgarr]

In our area permits are used only to up the tax base with home improvements. No one ever comes out to do any inspections for this kind of stuff. I should have a permit to install a dishwasher

[kaisen]

Your insurance company has an 'out' to deny coverage of a related incident (i.e. fire, personal injury, etc) if you didn't pull a permit. It's a BIG CYA thing.

[Gogar]

I do understand the CYA part of it,

Why does the fireplace installer even give me the option?

thanks

[Scott R]

I had one when I installed the furnace in my garage. What a pain in the rear, but I was worried about what Kaisen stated above. With Denver it was $45 for what I was doing, which was a furnace, ventilation and new gas line.

The first inspection, the gas line and furnace electric passed, but not the vent. My garage furnace has a forced exhaust and the inspector told me he had to see the owners manual to certify the vent setup. I didn't have a manual since I purchased a used furnace.

I purchased the manual from the company and called the inspector out again. He couldn't understand the manual and would not certify it. Finally his supervisor came out a week later and took about five mins and signed off on it.

So I guess any advice I would have is have the documentation in hand and ready. Oh and my installer was also very helpful in advising me on dealing with the permit man, it was Braconier Plumbing here in Denver.

[9dreizig]

Rules are made to be broken,,,
However gas lines are made to cause explosions,, I'd CYA and get a permit. It won't add to your tax base, not like that finished basement/recording studio you don't have downstairs :-)

[Seahawk]

Because he doesn't have any skin in the game...but you most assuredly do.

I've done some "wink, wink" permit jobs here for storage sheds, barn wrappings, sea wall work, etc., but if it involves gas, plumbing or electric I pull a permit if required.

Originally Posted by kaisen

For something like that, YES! You are adding a significant amount of liability if you do not. Get a permit

Originally Posted by kaisen

Your insurance company has an 'out' to deny coverage of a related incident (i.e. fire, personal injury, etc) if you didn't pull a permit. It's a BIG CYA thing.

Originally Posted by Gogar

I do understand the CYA part of it,

Why does the fireplace installer even give me the option?

thanks

[VINMAN]

I wont do work at a customer premises if they refuse to get a permit ( if required).
Although here in NJ you practically need a freakin permit to cut your grass. It is ridiculous what they want permits for. But yeah there are times when it is more than warranted.
Your Ins. co has every right to deny coverage if something happens due to non-permitted work. Especially gas and electrical related.

I personally have NEVER done work in my own home without a permit....

[Zeke]

Get the permit. When it comes time to sell, it will be an advantage. I'm sure you can negotiate the permit mark up if they want the work.

Around here, they want permits to install a garbage disposer. I don't do that nor do I get one to install a door with frame. Those both are out in the open if anyone wants to see later on. Inside wall stuff should have at least pics.

Anything to do with a fireplace, yes. Lots of codes that can be missed. I like the idea that the installer is suggesting it. Shows he's not afraid of inspections.

[stomachmonkey]

For in ground sprinklers I would not get a permit.

In your case I would get a permit.

Apart from the CYA building codes do change over time.

If you do everything the way it should be done to be code compliant and don't have a permit you run the risk of needing to get a permit at a later date, like if you sell the house and someone picks up on it.

If code changes you could be forced to get it upgraded to current code which may cost a bundle or may not even be possible.

I came very close to having to knock down an entire detached garage because the PO extended it 4 ft without a permit and the setbacks changed during the time I owned it. If the garage had not changed from the original permitted structure I was grandfathered. Had he pulled a permit I was grandfathered. The way he did it made the entire structure, not just the additional 4 ft illegal.

YMMV.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

+1 this is a good thing. Effectively they're asking you, "you are our client and technically the general contractor on the job hiring us as a sub to you - as such you are responsible for the necessary permits - however in the interest of making sure it gets done properly, we'll get them for you if you want".

This shows good faith, above board practices and (realistically) that they know they're dealing with an unsophisticated (in construction) "general contractor". Most guys you hire (technically subs to you acting as the "general contractor") wash their hands of the whole scene by simply saying "we're a subcontractor - the g.c. is responsible for all the permits, inspections, etc." In other words they hand you a bill of goods and if you don't either hire a competent g.c. or are one versed in construction, you could be getting non-code-compliant crap and never know it.

Take them up on it. I'd even pay them a little above actual cost to cover their time in going down to the building department, etc. They're doing the right thing and should be compensated for it, IMHO.

[URY914]

Get the permit and get it inspected. A gas line should have another set of eyes looking at it.

[Gogar]

Thanks; I guess I'll get the permit.

[jcommin]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

For in ground sprinklers I would not get a permit.

In your case I would get a permit.

Apart from the CYA building codes do change over time.

If you do everything the way it should be done to be code compliant and don't have a permit you run the risk of needing to get a permit at a later date, like if you sell the house and someone picks up on it.

If code changes you could be forced to get it upgraded to current code which may cost a bundle or may not even be possible.

I came very close to having to knock down an entire detached garage because the PO extended it 4 ft without a permit and the setbacks changed during the time I owned it. If the garage had not changed from the original permitted structure I was grandfathered. Had he pulled a permit I was grandfathered. The way he did it made the entire structure, not just the additional 4 ft illegal.

YMMV.

Difficult to do in ground sprinklers w/o a permit in IL. You need to ge a certified plumber to install the new BeZZZZ backflow preventer valve. You need a permit and the valve must be certified every year whether you use your system or not. One of the more dumber laws on the books.

I would cetrtainly get a permit replacing the coal with gas. Go to the village or city hall and ask for the list of contractors already approved. Will save you time and money.

[azasadny]

Get a permit and sleep easier...

[CurtEgerer]

I generally advise against permits. OTOH, I make my living investigating building fires and explosions

The contractor does not have an option on getting a permit. The building code requires a permit. The only thing exempt would be "portable gas-fired appliances", "replacement of minor parts on an existing system", or "emergency work" - none appears to apply. And he should get the permit, not you. If he wants you to get the permit in your name, that generally means he does not have a license to do the work or he wants to be deemed a subcontractor to you so he can use your homeowners general liability insurance in case something goes 'boom'.

[RWebb]

very likely you are required by local law to get a permit - with some hefty sanctions if you don't

also, when you sell, the sale might be held up if there is no permit

are you in Boulder??

around here, contractors hate to get permits and often tell the owner to do it - unlike what Curt E. describes for where he is, the law requires a permit but does not require the contractor to get one...

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by jcommin

Difficult to do in ground sprinklers w/o a permit in IL. You need to ge a certified plumber to install the new BeZZZZ backflow preventer valve. You need a permit and the valve must be certified every year whether you use your system or not. One of the more dumber laws on the books.

House I was talking about was in a town that required permit for sprinklers because of the backflow valve. There were two types they certified for use and they would not tell you which ones they were until you pulled the permit

They would also take the opportunity to bang you an additional $8 per head per year which for me amounted to a 25% yearly tax on the initial install.

I did some research and found a company that did a lot of installations in my town so they knew what was required.

[URY914]

^^^ Can you pull a permit and install the BF preventor and 1 head? More heads may appear in the future.