Fuel efficient autos

[RWebb]

buying a hybrid will significantly reduce your pollution impact, including CO2 emissions, as long as you don't crash it right away -- compared to most other vehicles

it's silly to claim otherwise

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by RWebb

buying a hybrid will significantly reduce your pollution impact, including CO2 emissions, as long as you don't crash it right away -- compared to most other vehicles

it's silly to claim otherwise

I never said that a hybrid won't reduce pollution output -- I'm just tired of hybrid folks saying how "green" they are, when in fact there is indeed a carbon 'cost' associated with their car - especially when it comes to the manufacture and disposal of the battery packs. Tell me - what do they do with the spent batteries - the ones that cannot be recycled any further?

But I guess that doesn't matter - since that's someone ELSE's problem, and I can continue feeling smug knowing I'm doing my best to save the planet. Al Gore should be proud!

Just sayin'
-Z-man.

[RWebb]

What makes you think they cannot recycle the batteries?

You must live in a real hell hole if your significant problems include "hybrid folks saying how "green" they are."

[jyl]

Are you making "perfect the enemy of good"?

Sure, any car inherently has a substantial environmental "footprint", and the "greenest" choice would be to go carless. "Walk to work naked" as you suggested.

But if you're going to buy a car - like most of us have to - the carless option is pretty irrelevant.

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by RWebb

What makes you think they cannot recycle the batteries?

You must live in a real hell hole if your significant problems include "hybrid folks saying how "green" they are."

Geez - I didn't mean to piss in anyone's cereal today - apologies if I rubbed you or others the wrong way...

At some point, the batteries cannot be recycled any further, and there are components of them which must be thrown out. Plus there is a carbon footprint associated with the whole recycle process.

My significant problems do not include the level of smugness hybrid folks have. And please note that I am all for NOT abusing our natural resources.

For me, the bottom line is this: automotive technology has always evolved. And until the 'next best thing,' hybrids seem to be the best solution in terms of efficiency and greeness. But that doesn't make them the end-all, though some people believe so.

-Z-man.

[RWebb]

ok, tell you friends from me that they are not the end-all

the Volt is a hybrid with the gas motor becoming less important, same for the new MY Prius

I think that will continue, tho the all-elec. battery Leafettes will gain market share too.

I am still waiting for my hotrodded, jacked-up Moon Buggy VW Syncro Camper...

[turbo6bar]

Gosh, VW TDI 5-speed wagons are trading at insane prices. Asking price on a 6 year old VW wagon is $16k.

Still looking for the ideal ride. Thinking about other vehicles, as well. Land Rover 90 or 110 with TDI engine (mid to upper 20 mpg), VW Rabbit diesel pickup (40+ mpg), and any other diesel. The Cruze diesel sounds very nice, but it's 2 years out. Diesel is pushing $4/gallon and gasoline is only 40 cents behind.
Jurgen

[scottmandue]

I notice everyone throws out the worst mileage a hybrid can get... what is the best?

[john70t]

Hybrids can get superb milage...at the cost of performance. Americans are being sold the performance versions.
But like I said before, hybrid technowlogy is just one means to an end result.

Any vehicle will get substantially better mpg with less weight, harder tires, and better areodynamics. Areodynamics and cruzing speed are the most important factors with highway mpg.

[jyl]

In city driving, I average about 40 mpg on the gen 2 Prius, and can average 45 mpg if I'm careful and use mileage tricks. Wife routinely averages 35 mpg. She is a leadfoot, believes in accelerating to a red light, also thinks the car should be full of stuff all the time.

On the freeway, I can average about 50 mpg at 65 mph. If being a mpg geek, drafting semis in the slow lane etc, I can average well over 60 mpg for the period, but I've never been able to do that for long so don't have a solid whole-tank number. Wife averages 45 mpg, she drives 70-75 mph. This is 1-2 occupants, no luggage, summer time, low rolling resistance tires.

I used to get better mpg but then Oregon switched to ethanol blend gasoline year-round, that costs me a couple mpg. When we have a roof rack and pod on the car, the mpg is a bit worse. On short trips and cold weather, the mpg is notably worse (the engine runs to warm itself up, even when it doesn't need to propel the car). My winter tires hurt some too).

I think the US hybrid mpg champ may be the original Honda Insight (not the current one), because it is a small, light, aero, 2 occupant car, skinny tires.

If you want to include plug-ins, then the potential mpg goes way up, even if you convert the electricity into gasoline equivalent dollars. But only for trips done entirely or mostly within the battery range.

[AirKuhl]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

I notice everyone throws out the worst mileage a hybrid can get... what is the best?

I have a current gen Prius and average around 45mpg. 52mpg if mostly highway, and as low as 39mpg if mostly very short trips. Worst case for a hybrid is when the grocery store or school is only a mile or two away, because the engine turns on for a few minutes whether needed or not to warm up, so for a short trip it's on the whole way. I can get better on the highway but I tend to drive around 80mph around here, if I stayed around 65 it would be better.

I have gotten in the high 80's while "hyper-miling" on back roads. If there is a net loss in altitude, I can easily go over 100mpg. There are techniques you can use that really emphasize mileage, there are web sites devoted to it. It's actually pretty fun in a techie-geek sort of way and one of the reasons that despite being a Porsche/track day guy for life I consider the Prius a fun car to drive.

[Brando]

If I had another 914, I would want one of these: Mahle 1.2L Turbocharged Engine. 161HP / 210 ft/LBs TQ.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by turbo6bar

Gosh, VW TDI 5-speed wagons are trading at insane prices. Asking price on a 6 year old VW wagon is $16k.

Still looking for the ideal ride. Thinking about other vehicles, as well. Land Rover 90 or 110 with TDI engine (mid to upper 20 mpg), VW Rabbit diesel pickup (40+ mpg), and any other diesel. The Cruze diesel sounds very nice, but it's 2 years out. Diesel is pushing $4/gallon and gasoline is only 40 cents behind.
Jurgen

I'm at 3K+ miles and still love the JSW. Fits all my stuff (significantly more than a Prius will carry, or my old WRX or GTI) and I'm getting typically mid 30s mpg in combined driving. Perhaps more importantly, I find it to be a great driving environment. Just better design/fit/finish than the Japanese car equivalents. VW/Audi just makes a better interior to my eye and butt. Ymmv.

[aigel]

Originally Posted by nostatic

I'm at 3K+ miles and still love the JSW. Fits all my stuff (significantly more than a Prius will carry, or my old WRX or GTI) and I'm getting typically mid 30s mpg in combined driving. Perhaps more importantly, I find it to be a great driving environment. Just better design/fit/finish than the Japanese car equivalents. VW/Audi just makes a better interior to my eye and butt. Ymmv.

I just went over 3k too and have been averaging 38 mpg in 70% city driving (surface streets). I pussyfoot it. You are correct on the interior. The seats for example are outstanding. I had my selection down to a 2011 Mazda3 hatch w/ 6 speed and the 2011 TDI Golf w/ 6 speed. The golf wins hands down in fit and finish. The styling sure is a little more timeless too.

I tried to find a used TDI and ended up buying new because it wasn't that much more.

George

[jyl]

I'm in a Prius taxi. This company operates a fleet of Prius taxis, running 24/7. The driver tells me they get 45-50 mpg. No Prius in their fleet has needed a new traction battery before 250K miles. A replacement battery costs them $1800, or they may change the whole drivetrain. The highest mileage Priuses in the fleet have 400K miles. There are a few 2010+ models in the fleet too.