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Join Date: May 2009
Location: le monde
Posts: 321
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TDI rules,
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"when the power came on, you needed to hold on!" (Juergen Barth) |
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Like others have said, if you're basing your decision on pure economics, it's cheaper to get a non-hybrid than a hybrid. The price premium of the hybrid powertrain exceeds the savings in gasoline consumption unless you're planning on holding the vehicle for many, many years.
FWIW, over the 3 years and 45K miles I've had my gasoline-powered Civic, I probably average around 35-36 mpg. On the highway I can eke out up to 42 mpg on a tank. I don't think I've ever gotten lower than about 32 mpg. The hybrid Civic would have cost me about $5-6K more, comparing purchase prices. But as jyl pointed out, driving style counts. I work at getting good mileage in the Civic (while keeping up with the flow of traffic). When I lend the car to my wife or others, I see the mileage drop down by several mpg. I always shake my head and wonder when I see Prius (or other hybrid) drivers floor their cars from stoplights.
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1987 Venetian Blue (looks like grey) 930 Coupe 1990 Black 964 C2 Targa |
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Fla panhandle / Roaming in my motorhome
Posts: 4,332
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Cheers Richard |
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My tdi 2.0 Golf averages 60 mpg on the daily trip to work. I usually sit at 75 almost the whole journey. Many of the new smaller tdi's over here are getting close to 80mpg. The new ford fiesta appears superb on the fuel.
Hybrids just seem a waste of time and expense. |
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AutoBahned
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once you settle on some choices, take the delta in price and your annual mileage to compare with what fuel price will make it a break even
also realize that gas hogs will lose value rapidly as fuel prices escalate, so there are resale/trade-in issues also generally, a hybrid makes more sense in town or on hilly secondary roads, in the mtns. etc diesels make more sense on straight fwy. shots, esp. long-distances and if built right, for longevity if you do choose a compression ignition motor, why not just buy a used Benz? |
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North of You
Posts: 9,160
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Expect 35 MPG (at best) in Mercedes, which is well under his target.
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"A machine you build yourself is a vote for a different way of life. There are things you have to earn with your hands." |
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AutoBahned
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yes, but it is also much cheaper than a new car
you can buy a nice D going back to the early 60's that runs like a top |
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FUSHIGI
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: somewhere between here and there
Posts: 10,746
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'09 Jetta TDI DSG wagon owner. 35K miles. Oil changes and fuel only. DSG requires $250 service at 40K miles. So far, it has been a really good car but is run in the summer only (subie outback has winter duty). There are several TDIs sitting on the work parking lot year around.
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Not negative on TDIs at all, I love the diesels in Europe, just noting:
- UK gallons are 20% larger than US gallons, so UK MPG figures are misleadingly high if compared directly to US MPG figures. Take every UK MPG figure and cut by 20% for American readers. - The more stop-start city traffic you drive in, the more benefit you get from the hybrid systems, which turn the engine off when coasting and stopped, and use regenerative braking. - Small diesels in the US have less performance than you might think. For example, the smallest-engined Golf TDIs in the UK do 0-60 in 12-13 sec. For those who think the US Prius is too slow at 10.5 sec . . .
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1989 3.2 Carrera coupe; 1988 Westy Vanagon, Zetec; 1986 E28 M30; 1994 W124; 2004 S211 What? Uh . . . “he” and “him”? |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kenbridge VA
Posts: 4,283
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I know you don't want to here of another TDI love story......
I have an 01 (285,000 miles and 50 mpg) and a 2011 (4000 miles and 40mpg). I here Ford has a bunch of cars that get 40mpg ![]()
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Peppy 2011 BMW 335d 1988 Targa 3.4 ![]() 2001 Jetta TDI dead 1982 Chevette Diesel SOLD ![]() |
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My 1986 Yamaha Virago 750: Drove it from SloCal to Tucson AZ... Averaged 68mpg fully-loaded, with windshield, crusing at 70-80 mph. I refilled every 185-190 miles. You CAN'T beat that. When I was on half the income I had now I rode it everywhere. $8.50-$9.00 to fill it up and I could ride for almost 2 weeks before needing to fill up again.
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The funny thing is, you could do that drive in a couple different cars today, get 60 mpg all the way, and no bugs in your teeth, a/c, tunes, wear flip-flops, airbags and ABS. Cars have come a long way. In 10 years, I think we'll laugh at how crummy the mpg of the Prius and TDIs were. You know if the US car fleet had the average mpg of the European car fleet, we wouldn't have to mobilize the army every time some Arab country has a snit, and Chavez would be just another hard-luck banana dictator.
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mount Pleasant, South Carolina
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So why is it that the US market has so few small cars with diesel engines? Seems like a no brainer.
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SoFLA
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 613
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Doesn't matter that it isn't true. One guy was stuck behind an old diesel Benz one day, so there. ![]() |
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Burn the fire.
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If they are so readily available and can so easily be acquired here, please give me examples (local classifieds help) and I may look at buying one.
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Burn the fire.
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So I looked for myself, and amongst the results of 'cars' that could get 60+mpg, I found the Honda Insight ($19,000) and a plethora of gas or diesel Fords and VWs that are not allowed in the U.S.
I don't see how that kind of price tag can compete the with price tag of even a new motorcycle that can get the same gas mileage or better and has less maintenance cost. And yes, the maintenance costs on those hybrids becomes astronomical when you have to replace a ton of batteries, flush two coolant systems, do two oil changes, etc etc etc. IMHO the "benefit" of having the hybrid costs so much more than the other options. It's almost the same or a net-loss.
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AutoBahned
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not real clear on how they work, eh?
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