voted in a union today..

[rattlsnak]

After a 6-7 month drive, the union was voted in at my company today.. (aviation)

I had mixed feelings about it, especially after hearing all the rants from both sides, but now thats its over, Im very glad it passed.

Basically, we are seeking job protection rights and better QOL, and no one is 'after every penny we can get'. We wouldnt even mind if no benefits change. But we want something in writing.

[Neilk]

So just wondering, how much are your annual union dues going to cost you?

[lendaddy]

If your employee/employer relationship wasn't combative before it sure will be now...so you've got that going for ya.

I am also in a union and it's a joke. Now there is no cooperation, everything is a battle over details and wording. On the backside those in leadership roles in the union use that power to rape those that are not. It's just a bad deal all around.

I hope it works out for you though.

**it only costs me about $100 a month for the privilege though, well, if you don't count the additional $200 a month they scammed out of of the membership for additional retiree benefits paid for entirely by active employees**

[NY65912]

Having been in a union for 20 years and now an employer with 3 unions signed on. I fuly support unions. We believe that in construction we get a better trained and safer worker.

The problem for us in construction is that the union is pricing union shops out of the market. Non union shops are able to hire good workers because of the economic conditions. So a non union shop maybe has an hourly cost of $50-75 dolars. Our costs for a union A plumber is $110 per hour. The locals are now learning these lessons due to the fact that 50 - 75% of members are sitting on the bench.

Unions have got to be aware of these conditions and turn out a better more productive worker in order for the employer to be competitive, otherwise they'll be no union shops to work in.

[strupgolf]

In Indiana, you have to be in a union to get the better/bigger construction jobs. That's just the way they do it here. Now, since 80% of the trade workers DO NOT belong to unions, guess who gets the jobs, time after time. I don't have a dog in this fight, but the way things are, many fine workers are being kept out all the time, and it costs so much more for the project, mainly on projects paid for by the taxpayer.

[EarlyPorsche]

Unions are the worst. You have been warned. I hope you have savings to cover a solid 6 months of mortgage/expenses...

[madmmac]

No one in America from McDonald's on up would be making what they are if it were not from what Unions had done in the past.

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by madmmac

No one in America from McDonald's on up would be making what they are if it were not from what Unions had done in the past.

Yea.....that's kinda the problem.

[john70t]

Once long ago, I paid $35/mo into the Teamsters and endured a lengthy stirike with no pay...until the AFLCIO finally stepped in and provided a 1/10th - 1/50th of my lost wages.
Now I could pay rent again and stop eating ramen.


Then I began with the IAM (which the pilots union dropped like a hot iron) and paid $65/mo.
Never saw or heard of a rep for the first year or two.

That local union finally decided I was undesirable as an employee after I stood up and demanded technical proof when my foreman(along with the v.p. of the area) got in my face and demanded I put together a trailer gear without proper lugnuts/studs holding those big wheels together.
Another mechanic called the mfr. and the problem was solved.

That didn't go over well with "the powers that be"...along with my noted objections to a senior mechanic stalking me at my home at night.

After a combination of overwork injuries finally put me under for the next decade or so(still feelin' it), my regular pay gone, the IAM kept charging me the same regular dues. Not the lowered injury dues.
I would call the local office and they would "fix it".
Then, the next month I'd get a bill for hundreds in unpaid past dues.
This continued.

No assistance, no care, and no concern to getting me as a motivated employee back to work.
This was "liberal" California.

[Jagshund]

Hey! People who don't like to work would be out of jobs if it weren't for unions! You hacks watch your tone!

[Danny_Ocean]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

Yea.....that's kinda the problem.

LOL squared.

[Embraer]

i'm generally not a fan of unions, but i am a current member, and i know exactly the importance of a union for pilots. for you guys who don't fly, you wouldn't understand. a good cba makes all the difference between a somewhat good quality of life, versus being ramrodded everyday on a trip. pilot union members aren't just fat slobs sitting around, refusing to work, and getting a paycheck and an awesome pension, like so commonly the "union member" image portrays.

for those of you who fly and actually care about air safety, thank pilot unions for ensuring that companies truly operate in the interest of safety. whether it's SOP's, rest requirements, etc., all of those are things that need to be addressed by a union. i know first hand (from being the department head of flight training of one of the largest regional and now a major carrier) that mgmt will do everything it can to save money....even in the interest of safety. most airlines try to be reactive to safety, instead of proactive. good luck rattlsnak

[air-cool-me]

Its necessary for aviation..

Too many extremely costly choices have to be made by pilots who have Zero ability to move laterally in the field.

Safety and legality should be on the pilots mind.
Not if a company accountant will like it

(True story of one pilot in a small cargo company)
Scenario: Your in a hotel after 14 hours on the job. You have a generous 12 hours of rest from landing to takeoff the next day. After meals with your crew you head to your hotel bed.....

One problem: Its during the world cup and hotels country is playing(or it could have been domestic disturbance,fire alarm, food poisoning, loud weather,insomnia, its loud as hell). You get intermittent sleep.

The next day after 2 of your 3 flights scheduled(11 hours of flight time 18 hours on duty... starting at 7pm) you start to feel really tired. Your head is cloudy, your reactions are slowed, your trying to down coffee to stay awake because your nodding off in your chair at the gate in between flights.

You decide that continuing to fly would be UNSAFE. The airline has to cancel the flight... costing lots of money(several $1000's maybe even more then your yearly salary) and destroying tomorrows schedule.

10 min after you cancel your phone lights up with your bosses number, "its in our companies best interest for you to complete the flight" then your bosses > boss call's "Remember when I interviewed you and gave you a shot? Im not asking you to violate any rules but... This will cost us significantly......."

You mention that this sounds like an investigatory interview and mumble "Weingarten Rights". You find some rest and operate the flight 8 hours late.

When you get back to your home-base you find a pink slip, 2 weeks later you get a check for paid time off and your back on the job. You give a quick call to your representative to thank him. Two months later you turn in documentation showing how the company is systematically cutting your hours and giving the work to other pilots. You get another check, you make another call. All this because you were trying to be safe.....

I know it doesn't always work out but they are a necessary evil in aviation...

[air-cool-me]

Another quick one from our non-union subsidiary:

You leave your job for a new one.. You get training on the company airplane and expect to make $5000 a month.

Training takes 2 months and costs the new company $10,000(typical). You have been making 250 a week training pay for the 2 months.

Right before you take your final checkride the company says "were going to pay you 3000 for the first 5 months till you pay us back for the training costs."

Do you hit the street with a -2 month handicap after your bills pilled up?

[Gretch]

I get a kick out of people who believe they are entitled to a job.............

This bull**** is what has ruined the United States and put talent-less klowns in high public office by dint of the entitlement mentality, parasite class vote.

[EarlyPorsche]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

Yea.....that's kinda the problem.

Exactly. But nonetheless I hope it works out for you and the industry.

[LeeH]

Originally Posted by air-cool-me

Its necessary for aviation..

The scenario you describe has played out a few times in my wife's 12+ years at Skywest. Other than a groan from the dispatcher, no one has ever questioned her judgment.

BTW... Skywest is hiring a lot of pilots right now. Here's their feelings toward unions:


Our Union Free Statement

SkyWest Airlines has been union-free for over 30 years. It is our desire to remain so. Today, SkyWest is standing amidst the ruins of a once proud industry. Our success is our people. We have accepted the responsibility of open and honest communication. We have maintained an open-door policy that enables any employee access to anyone in management, from your supervisor to our CEO. We want you to be informed. And as SkyWest continues to grow, the continued empowerment of employees through education is what will not only preserve, but improve Our Culture.

We feel strongly that the long-term interests of all SkyWest employees can be best served by maintaining our current environment of open and honest communication without adding an unnecessary layer of outside third party bureaucracy. We should not compromise the environment we have worked so hard to create. The existence of a third party will undoubtedly change the relationship that we currently have of dealing directly with one another.

And while union organizers may want you to believe they have your best interest at heart, the truth is that unions are businesses that generate money by signing up new members and collecting dues. They do not provide wages, benefits, buildings and equipment, or any other asset necessary to keep our company in business. A union can only provide its members with what a company is willing to give. The truth is that a union only has two things it can guarantee its members: its right to strike and make its members pay dues and assessments.

History has taught us that powerful unions, particularly in our industry, do not hesitate to place their companies in financial peril -- ultimately costing thousands of hardworking men and women their jobs. Understand, this is not "just a pilot" issue. Union activity affects every single employee.

Our dedication to fairness in all that we do, coupled with an uncompromising commitment to quality, truly sets SkyWest apart as an airline and an employer. We believe in treating each employee with respect. We have continued to update our policies and procedures to ensure that you will be treated fairly and consistently. By working together, we have created an environment of competitive wages, good working conditions, and opportunity for both personal and professional growth. Together we have built SkyWest; and together we can continue to build a better SkyWest for our fellow employees and ourselves.

[Schrup]

I've been forced to pay union dues for over 20 years & feel ripped off. Unrepresented employees get better deals & aren't out tens of thousands of dollars in dues. The two times I've asked them for help, they basically told me to STFU unless I want to become a target. I would opt out in a heartbeat. Union negotiations are a joke, they have sold us down the river to further their own political cause. I view my union officials as parasites.

[Freybird]

When I hear unionization, I think of central planning and this quote from Atlas Shrugged: "In the name of a return to morality, you have sacrificed all those evils, which you held as the cause of your plight. You have sacrificed justice to mercy. You have sacrificed independence to unity. You have sacrificed reason to faith. You have sacrificed wealth to need. You have sacrificed self-esteem to self-denial. You have sacrificed happiness to duty."
Ayn Rand

[cstreit]

A friend of mine works in a Union auto repair shop. It's really necessary.

Why? Every time they have a tough sales month they want to start firing the experienced guys that make more money. Then they hire these young techs that can't do anything but change oil and brake pads.... The union protects these guys based on seniority. The lazy guys are the young ones because they don't want to do the hard work....

Not saying they are ALL good, but some of you guys are painting with a pretty broad brush.