voted in a union today..

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Boy talk about putting words into someone's mouth! When did I ever say that? I said you as PIC are the final authority. Normy's decision to reject the aircraft on the basis of non-functioning equipment was 100% correct - I'm not second-guessing him on that. What I'm saying is if his company (or mine, or any company) then turned around and threatened the PIC with termination for not going, that pilot has a professional responsibility to say "fine, go ahead - I'm still not touching that airplane because it's unsafe and illegal".

Evidently some here think it's okay to wear the label of "professional" yet not have the balls to walk the walk and act like one without a gang of union thugs standing behind them. I told my company more than once "sorry, no go" for whatever reason and If they'd threatened me with being fired I can assure you I'd have said "fine, you know where to mail my last check". They never crossed that line (sign of a good company IMHO) and worked around it.

Can't have it both ways guys - either you're a professional or you're not - and professionalism includes not compromising public safety or breaking the law due to threat or coercion - it also includes having INDIVIDUAL intestinal fortitude to do the right thing without a gang of thugs "getting your back". A real professional and a real man would do it regardless.

[Gretch]

You have come a long way, son.

[wdfifteen]

Unions do some ridiculous things. I've seen them intentionally do things to lower productivity just to flex their muscle. They need to get their ****e together and start helping the economy, not merely themselves.
They have been an overall plus for the our consumer economy. Many, many small businesses thrived because we had (yes had ) a robust middle class with money to spend. Middle class wages were largely due to unions. There is a reason we have a concurrent decline in unions, a in the middle class, and a in the economy. If unions continue to decline, so will our economy.

[BK911]

...

[air-cool-me]

Originally Posted by LeeH

The scenario you describe has played out a few times in my wife's 12+ years at Skywest. Other than a groan from the dispatcher, no one has ever questioned her judgment..

I like skywest.. its a neat company culture. BUT. Skywest is the way it is because of unions.... Yes I know they are non union but pay-rates and working rules are set biased on offering just enough that a union isn't voted in...

-former ASA guy

The problem is when the chips fall.. her pay, conditions, rules and that dispatchers attitude are guaranteed by the kindness of StGeorge's heart... what if her pay is cut 25% tomorrow? where can she go? Not to a 12 year RJ captian job someplace else! what will she do? a merger? With a contracting industry it is a possibility...

And just a little light hearted ribbing... I would never pass OE on the brakillya... don't live with my mother in california so I cant have her pack vegan sack lunches to live on $1650 a month!

[rattlsnak]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

I'm not second-guessing him on that. What I'm saying is if his company (or mine, or any company) then turned around and threatened the PIC with termination for not going, that pilot has a professional responsibility to say "fine, go ahead - I'm still not touching that airplane because it's unsafe and illegal".

Evidently some here think it's okay to wear the label of "professional" yet not have the balls to walk the walk and act like one without a gang of union thugs standing behind them. I told my company more than once "sorry, no go" for whatever reason and If they'd threatened me with being fired I can assure you I'd have said "fine, you know where to mail my last check". They never crossed that line (sign of a good company IMHO) and worked around it.

The point you're missing is, after youve been at a company for 10, 15, years, (whatever), you simply CANT walk away. If they threaten you, you do it, or you get fired or put on the ***** list. It might not be the first time or two, but it will happen. You can't walk away because you cant afford to start all over at the bottom at another company and go from making great money with great schedules, etc, to barely surviable wages with crap schedules and maybe cummuting. Totally different world then small 135 mom and pop operations. Most pilots in that environment, tend to bounce around from job to job etc, but that is not possible at a career airline.

As I mentioned,, yes, I do believe unions are not perfect and have their issues, but in this industry, they are greatly needed...

[Embraer]

I'd like to see how pious PoP really would be if he were at an airline for 15 years, had family, kids, house and everything all squared away, and when tasked with it, decided that "being a professional" was more important. I'm sure he'd put his utter professionalism above the needs of himself and his family

[TimT]

I'd like to see how pious PoP really would be

LOL

Bloviatus Maximus..

[Normy]

Originally Posted by TimT

LOL

Bloviatus Maximus..

YOU are an idiot!

N!

[TimT]

YOU are an idiot!

OK Thank you... funny things here.... I twist up some psuedo Latin phrase ...

Apply it in a fashion that has nothing to do with the subject of the post...

And I am an idiot..... ok whatever.....

I think "Bloviatus Maximus" should be a nom de guerre for those that have posted 20K 25K, some are over 30K posts...

Relax Francis..

Perhaps should have been in green....

[onewhippedpuppy]

Guaranteed job security? What kind of asshat thinks they are entitled to a guaranteed job?

[air-cool-me]

Guaranteed job security

Its not 100% but Its a trade off for the lack of mobility.


No one wants pilots frequently switching airplanes and jobs. Its not in the best interest of safety.