Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Miscellaneous and Off Topic Forums > Off Topic Discussions


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered
 
aap1966's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,518
Garage
Professional conumdrum

Having lunch with a couple of guys in my industry the other day, and discovered that the company I work for is missing a significant (but not huge) income stream, say $20,000 per month, because we're screwing up some crucial paperwork.
Adjust the paperwork, we get the extra cash. (Clients are huge bureaucracies, they will not argue if the correct paperwork is done).

So, the conumdrum.
My company has shaky profitability, but unlikely to go under. Currently frantically cost cutting.
Management here hates change, and will never admit they got anything wrong. Convincing them to do anything differently will be hard.
If I do convince them, 20% chance I can sort the paperwork as a consultant and take a cut (say 10%) of extra revenue gained.
But 80% chance sorting the paperwork gets added to my job description and my workload jumps up significantly with no extra $$ and no credit. (The credit doesn't worry me, extra work with no change in pay does)

Collective wisdom please...............

__________________
(As for) Michael Moore:Calling that lying liberal POS propaganda a documentary is like calling PARF the library of congress.

I knew it would happen, just not so soon...........
Old 07-27-2011, 04:56 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,954
Sounds similar to where I work. The latter scenario is most likely, and could also have a negative effect on your relationships with coworkers. With that in mind, an anonymous letter to an appropriate admin would be my choice, and mum's the word..
Old 07-27-2011, 05:14 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Northern Arkansas
Posts: 4,482
Garage
If this was ADV there would be available a popcorn eating smilie indicating one was interested in the replies. That option is not available here but I'm certainly curious as to the generated responses.
I'm indeed fortunate to be the only employee at my shop.
Jim
__________________
down to jap bikes that run and a dead Norton
Old 07-27-2011, 05:17 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Now in 993 land ...
 
aigel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: L.A.-> SF Bay Area
Posts: 14,882
Garage
Do what's right and suggest the change. So what if you get more work - more responsibility is always better. You may blame the company culture but you are part of it too by worrying about getting more on your plate.

George
__________________
97 993
81 SC (sold)
Old 07-27-2011, 05:36 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Unregistered
 
sammyg2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: a wretched hive of scum and villainy
Posts: 55,652
Always do the right thing.
No matter what.
In this case, you are employed by a company and have a responsibility to look after the interests of that company providing you don't have to compromise your ethics to do it.

Tell them how they are screwing up, and if they try to dump it on you complain or go elsewhere.
But always do the things that allow you to hold your head high and respect what you see in the mirror.
Old 07-27-2011, 05:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Wood Magician
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Costa Mesa CA.
Posts: 891
Devils Advocate might say-

If the company you work for found a working method that if put into place earned them $20,000 more a month and all they had to do was ask one of their loyal employees (who worries about his job in this market) to do a little bit more work for three months to get it implemented. Would they share the rewards and earnings with one or all of the employees?? My guess would be NO.

Company loyalty to their employees is almost totally dead in today's world as far as I can tell. However that shouldn't affect your decision in this case. Document the entire process and compile e-mails and internal correspondence well. It should be clear that you are the originator of the profit increasing change to the paper work. consider it a feather in your cap but do not expect any big thanks or compensation. Use this for when you go to the table for a raise or include mention of the profit increasing boost on your resume in your list of successful achievements during your employment with said company.

Sadly this is why many companies stagnate because they crush the go get it attitude and smart thinking of many people so do what is needed to hold on to your positive attitude. Whatever keeps you engaged cause resenting the people you work for is a recipe for a miserable place to go to everyday to work. Life is too short for that.

This may or may not apply to the industry you are working in and it is just an opinion after all.
Old 07-27-2011, 11:10 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Virginia Rocks!
 
VaSteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Just outside the beltway
Posts: 8,497
Quote:
Do what's right and suggest the change. So what if you get more work - more responsibility is always better. You may blame the company culture but you are part of it too by worrying about getting more on your plate.



George

X2. I see a lot of this BS where I work. "Let's not fix it, I might have to do more work..." the alternative is, one day someone comes in, figures out the issues and fires the redundant people.

Make the case and if not rewarded, bring it up in the performance review. If still not rewarded, at least sleep at night knowing you did right.
Old 07-28-2011, 03:16 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered
 
IROC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 11,468
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammyg2 View Post
Always do the right thing.
No matter what.
In this case, you are employed by a company and have a responsibility to look after the interests of that company providing you don't have to compromise your ethics to do it.
Good heavens!! I completely agree with Sammy!! What is this world coming to?
__________________
Mike
1976 Euro 911
3.2 w/10.3 compression & SSIs
22/29 torsions, 22/22 adjustable sways, Carrera brakes
Old 07-28-2011, 03:16 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
jyl jyl is online now
Registered
 
jyl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Nor California & Pac NW
Posts: 24,542
Garage
Easy call, suggest and push for the change.
Old 07-28-2011, 03:33 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Z-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: NJ, USA
Posts: 9,628
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by aigel View Post
Do what's right and suggest the change. So what if you get more work - more responsibility is always better. You may blame the company culture but you are part of it too by worrying about getting more on your plate.

George
+1.
Isn't this the ethically and morally right thing to do?

I think a wise person once said, "With great responsibility comes great power."

-Z-man.
__________________
2010 Cayman S - 12-2020 -
2014 MINI Cooper S Coupe - 05-17 - 05-21
1989 944S2 - 06-01 - 01-14
Carpe Viam.
<><
Old 07-28-2011, 05:31 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Detached Member
 
Hugh R's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: southern California
Posts: 26,964
I agree with the sentiment. You did notice he said he is a consultant, not that that matters. As a consultant, he looks even better if he points it out, IMHO.
__________________
Hugh
Old 07-28-2011, 05:31 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Z-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: NJ, USA
Posts: 9,628
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh R View Post
I agree with the sentiment. You did notice he said he is a consultant, not that that matters. As a consultant, he looks even better if he points it out, IMHO.
Not to mention it looks good on a resume when searching for a potential new client... "Through my action, my previous company generated an additional $20k income monthly..." or something like that.

-Z
__________________
2010 Cayman S - 12-2020 -
2014 MINI Cooper S Coupe - 05-17 - 05-21
1989 944S2 - 06-01 - 01-14
Carpe Viam.
<><
Old 07-28-2011, 05:50 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
canna change law physics
 
red-beard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Houston, Tejas
Posts: 43,366
Garage
As an employee, it is your duty to bring this up. If you are a consultant, I would write it up, without the solution, and present the material to show that it is woth a quarter of a million a year. Then offer to fix the problem for 25% of the measured savings/extra revenue for a one year period.
__________________
James
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the engineer adjusts the sails.- William Arthur Ward (1921-1994)
Red-beard for President, 2020
Old 07-28-2011, 06:23 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Still Doin Time
 
asphaltgambler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nokesville, Va.
Posts: 8,225
Quote:
Originally Posted by aigel View Post
Do what's right and suggest the change. So what if you get more work - more responsibility is always better. You may blame the company culture but you are part of it too by worrying about getting more on your plate.

George
Disagree here - Sometimes in work and life doing what's right does not always net results anticipated, even when common sense would seem to obviously prevail. To that end can have completely opposite results against you...........my .02
__________________
'15 Dodge - 'Dango R/T Hauls groceries and Kinda Hauls *ss
'07 Jeep SRT-8 - Hauls groceries and Hauls *ss Sold
'85 Guards Red Targa - Almost finished after 17 years
'95 Road King w/117ci - No time to ride, see above
'77 Sportster Pro-Street Drag Bike w/93ci - Sold
Old 07-28-2011, 06:30 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,011
According to the Project Management Professional Code of Ethics, one would be required to do the right thing.

Paul E. Rusek III - Certified Project Management Professional as of June 22, 2011. BOY that test sucked!
__________________
You can't redistribute ambition...
Old 07-28-2011, 08:34 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North of You
Posts: 9,160
I don't see a moral obligation to fight and convince the company that they are missing revenue. Depending on his job, and duties, he may have no real obligation.

Would a consultant have an obligation to tell the employer if he sees unsafe practices in shop?

I might feel obligated to go to someone and say 'if we change our invoices to xxxx then we can bring in an extra $20,000 per month'. My conscience is clear at that point.

I wouldn't 'fight for it' unless I got something in return. Which might be limited to continued employment.
__________________
"A machine you build yourself is a vote for a different way of life. There are things you have to earn with your hands."
Old 07-28-2011, 08:40 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Houston (Clearlake), TX
Posts: 11,212
Garage
Always do what's right. Besides the more you have to do the more likely you are to get it all done. That's my motto and one reason they pay me like a manager even though I don't have to manage anybody.
__________________
2014 Cayman S (track rat w/GT4 suspension)
1979 930 (475 rwhp at 0.95 bar)
Old 07-28-2011, 12:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered
 
Danimal16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: I be home in CA
Posts: 7,684
Ideally I would simply say do the right thing, but we don't have all of the information. Ten years ago I would have said you owe the company your loyalty. I am not so quick to jump in that direction anymore. I like the anonymous notes or whatever to get the company aware that there is an issue.

To not want additional responsibility for the same pay is not unwarranted nor is it in anyway unethical or immoral. The company has an obligation to the employee or consultant as well. Why should anyone give up their time for the company if there is not some receprocity as well? What is so immoral or unethical about wanting to have a life outside of one's "profession". It depends on the relationship.

I don't see a downside to not wanting the job responsibility at the cost of the pain or the time out of one's life. The opportunity for the company to do better using the anonymous method just makes sense.
__________________
Dan
Old 07-28-2011, 01:41 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
 
Driver
 
Noah930's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: gone
Posts: 17,430
Garage
1. I think it's an easy answer: inform mgmt of the potential error of their ways. If they don't do anything about it because they're not the sort to admit any mistakes, that's their problem.

If you're worried about more work with the same pay, raise that issue at the same time if they look like they want to go forward with having you fix the entire system alone. Tell them you've found a possible problem, but also think you have a potential fix (hiring a new employee or spreading the added work out to all employees) at the same time.

Were I to own a company and someone had an idea how I could make an additional $20K monthly through correcting paperwork inefficiencies, I would be interested in knowing how.

2. Are you an employee or a consultant? Not that that would alter my decision-making above, but it would clarify some of the issues/ramifications others have mentioned.
__________________
1987 Venetian Blue (looks like grey) 930 Coupe
1990 Black 964 C2 Targa
Old 07-28-2011, 02:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Crusty Conservative
 
silverc4s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Friendswood, TX, America
Posts: 3,242
Garage
I also agree with Sammy here, you must do what's right in order to respect yourself properly.
And, it's conundrum, I believe.

__________________
Bill

69 911 T Targa, 2.4E w/carbs (1985-2001)
70 911 S Coupe, 2nd owner (1989- 2015)
73 911 T Targa, 3.2 Motronic (2001- )
Old 07-28-2011, 02:24 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:18 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2025 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.