When did we stop "doing"?
 

I'd like to keep this out of parf. Been looking around at the world and I am thinking that our problem isnt left or right, but rather that we no longer are a nation (world?) of doers. Instead we watch. Watch sports rather than play them. Watch politics rather than participate. Dispose instead of fix (machines and people).

Maybe we've always had the same percentage of doers (they're still around) and watchers but seems at some point the world tilted. Has the criticisms of tv when it first arrived on the scene finally come to roost? Or are we just doing different things now, living in the digital world?

amen.

Very interesting topic indeed.

So many changes happened to our society in so many ways, in a relatively short time frame, that we haven't had time to adjust. Or even think about it..

Affluence has something to do with it. I know growing up, we just scraped by even though both parents worked. As time passed and parents kept getting promoted, all of a sudden we had disposable income. Toys followed then we started paying for services. I remember taking apart my fake Mongoose BMX bike to the frame, then rattle can painting it. Now, I take my road bike to a shop for a tune up. Stupid waste of $65.

Oh yes, my goodness...you betcha. That is how an old fart like me keeps employed even when I really want to be retired, because the younger folks would rather keep up a solid circle jerk rather than actually doing the work.

My team has adopted a Walt Disney line....

"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing."

....and people are offended. They say I am not being "nice". My advice back to them is that if they want "nice", go buy a puppy, we are here to get ***** done and they either help make it happen, watch it happen or go back to their offices and wonder what happened.

It frustrates me almost beyond belief....I fear the educational system has failed these guys big time. I mean, they are so totally risk averse and seek to avoid failure at all costs, even when the effort spent to avoid failure is far higher than the effort to make a good solid attempt.

Anyway, I keep charging stupid rates for what I do in the hope that companies will tell me to take a hike and they just keep paying.

I am starting to feel (slightly) guilty....sigh.

D.

We are raising a bunch of button pushers.
Common sense is rapidly disappearing. Soon there will be no doers.....just a lot of head scratchers wondering what to do and how to do it.
There are still many skilled craftsmen around but i fear they are a dying breed.

+ Infinity!

Agree. Was sharpening the knives last night. Having a conversation w/friend "whatcha doin'?" He was surprised I was doing that - response was "hire someone".

Great observations. I think it is true that Americans spend a lot of time looking for someone or something outside our heads to stimulate us. And I don't think our powers of critical thinking have kept up with the onslaught of entertainment/information that assaults us.

This is the biggest problem with the up and coming generations. The inability to do anything for or entertain themselves. Pretty scary.

I believe that the development of information technology had a lot to do with us doing less. We live more and more in a virtual world that gives us the illusion of doing something, while all we are really doing is pressing keys, moving a mouse and watching a screen. Yes we are living more and more in the digital world, and when all the knowledge of the world is only a google search away, even using our own mind becomes futile, memorizing stuff becomes optional since it is all there in cyberspace. This digital era is a double edged sword which makes us both more powerful and more lazy.

I'm 5'8" or so and weigh 160. And the only reason for that last 15 lbs is because I really like rib steaks, Wendy's double cheeseburgers and lot of really rich beer (I'm an IPA guy). What's my exercise routine? Yup, you guessed it. I do stuff. My TV is nice if I want to watch a movie, but I have no "channels." No cable, no nuthin'.

I'm not bragging. I'm pointing out that "doing stuff," as a strategy, has a bunch of benefits. In addition to getting stuff done and keeping fit.........it's FUN to do stuff.

This nation is going to Helena Handbasket. I hope nobody blows this conversation up by posting a rant about entitlements. Those are not the problem.

I very rarely pay anyone to do anything for me.

I enjoy projects and doing things.

I don't understand people that are overly consumed by their mobile device, looking up occasionally to make sure they aren't going to hit something in the real world...


KT

tough call.

i visited taiwan. i swear, there is a small part of the population that does work for the majority.

my wife's auntie called a repair man to come and change the water supply hose on the toilet. granted it was going to be very cheap..(iirc, somewhere under $20US)..the guy was very late. by the time i figured what all the chinese speakers were talking about. it helped that they were pointing at the drippy line..and waving around the new line..duh!..i pulled out a leatherman and changed it out..in minutes. they literally CHEERED!! i was embarrassed with the fuss.

taiwan..not a country of do-ers. and they are not all that affluent.

Cheap labor at $20. You came even cheaper - FREE! Culture of paying for services because of cheap labor. They've been hiring out for so long that they lack the skill to do it for themselves and the motivation to learn.

Affluence is relative. Just have to be able and willing to pay for what the other guy is willing and able to sell him time for.

I calculate things based off of a an easy little formula. How much time would it take at my job to pay for what I'm buying, and if it cost more in time for me to make it myself than in time for me pay for it to be done, then is it something I would also enjoy doing?

For example, lets say I made $10 an hour, a T-shirt cost $15. Materials to make the shirt cost $3, and it took two hours of my time, making my own is a $23 T-shirt, buying one is a $15 T-shirt, so unless I really enjoyed making my own shirt - I'm going to go and buy one.

Replacing the clutch on my car, well, I chose to do that myself, probably saved money. Building my own chassis for my RC monster truck, would of been cheaper in "time" to of bought one already designed and with the kinks worked out, but I wanted to make something with my hands, so even though I spent maybe "$40 more" given what I made at the time, I wanted to do it myself.

A lot of the doing will be done by those with motivated poor parents.

Lack of "doers" is a "result" of the real problem: Lack of Parenting! Been happening for 40+ years........

I only stopped "doing" tonite to cool off & read my Email.

I buy my t-shirts too. But I rarely pay for someone to fix something for me, whether it is a car, plumbing, electrical, whatever. The compliment I remember receiving which has stuck in my mind the best because of my pride in receiving it, was being called "resourceful." By Warren. Coming from him, it was high praise indeed.

I did however, take my Stihl chain saw to the repair shop recently. I really need to just get a service manual for that thing.

Here you go, Supe!

STIHL Incorporated USA -- Information -- Manufacturing the World's Number One Selling Brand of Chain Saws

...and they think they are the $hit.

In the Asian (Chinese)community, doers are considered lower class.

Individualism has gone crazy. Not least spawned by media. Nowadays its all about demanding your Rights, no feeling of duty or plight. Humanity and humility is down the drain.

Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Wrath, Envy, Pride

>>> It's nothing new. Just a lot more common now.

--------------------------------------------------------

Have you noticed how people cut corners when driving their power steering equipped cars? = Lazy

Its The Human Race at its finest. No more no less.

I think that is part of the glue that bonds us here, we are doers. It pisses me off that the older I get the more I have to pay people to do things that 15 years ago I could do myself. To me it's the single thing about getting old that sucks.

I think a lot has to do with training the youth to want to do something. I use to teach Woodshop and architecture part time in my local high school. Most of the younger (under 35) teachers could not understand why I refuse to allow any of my first semester students to use CAD. I made sure they can read simple drawings, have the ability to read a tape measure, and have a general understanding of how a building or structure is build. I catch crap for not letting themm use the computer. What the hell is wrong with understanding the basics? Everything has to be done now, the easy way by pushing the buttons. No longer do we think, push a button and it is right there.

My ass. principle, another 35ish good looking girl made some noise about old timers like me ( I may be 5 or so years older her) and my old way of thinking and doing things will go straight down the gutter. Everything has gone computer, so we will no longer need you any more, she said. I hope her plumbing backs up on a Sunday afternoon so she can push a button and the clean up will be done. Youth, they don't understand $hit or have I just gone over to the dark side?

My dear new neighbor (again, 35ish young man with an Asian wife. He's the type that always has some kind of head gear, or thing on his head, no matter how hot it gets. I don't understand beanies in hot weather? He's skinny, a little fragile looking, the type who always carries a bag with tassels over his shoulder) moved into the fixer upper next door. I offer to help with loaning them my tools to do work on the house. It needed a coat of paint and kitchen and bath can come later. I told him to take the locks off and number them so they go back to the same location after he gets them re-key. What does he do, he hires a lock smith that charged him 80 bucks per lock. he could have had it off in less then 2 minutes by taking four screw out and a 5 minutes drive. 8 bucks later per locklater, you can have the whole house done. He had 10 locks. You do the math. the lock smith saw his kind coming a mile away. He complains about being strap for cash after the purchased of the home. What a fool. some just aren't interested in doing anything.

Radio
Television
Video Games
Personal Computers
Cell Phones
Smart Phones
End of Civilization as we knew it (channeling my inner Tabs)

What is finished... is the idea that this great country is dedicated to the freedom and flourishing of every individual in it. It's the individual that's finished. It's the single, solitary human being that's finished. It's every single one of you out there that's finished, because this is no longer a nation of independent individuals. It's a nation of some 300-odd million transistorized, deodorized, whiter-that-white, steel-belted bodies, totally unnecessary as human beings, and as replaceable as piston rods... Well, the time has come to say, is dehumanization such a bad word. Because good or bad, that's what is so. The whole world is becoming humanoid - creatures that look human but aren't. The whole world not just us. We're just the most advanced country, so we're getting there first. The whole world's people are becoming mass-produced, programmed, numbered, insensate things...

It seems the answer is US – the Pelicans who know how to DO.
We are the teachers and examples.
We are the fixers who know how to do.

When I had my Porsche business, we were doers. We engineered things. We built things. We fixed things. We got things done.

After I retired, I took up volunteer teaching and raising kids, we were doers. We engineered things. We built things. We fixed things. We got things done.
My kids know carpentry, plumbing, electrical, auto mechanics and (consequently) far more than their college degrees.
…and it has paid off in their lives.

I am very proud of my students (9th grade Science Research at undergraduate level); one, for example, used toilet paper tubes as airflow straighteners and is now a principal in a very innovative company. The list goes on.

My current ‘mission’ is a 7-YO I’m tutoring (for free) who is ‘smart as a tack’.
Another few years and he will be challenging me (although this may be due to the progression of senility on my part).
I want to see his PhD and life-changing inventions.
The challenge will be getting him there in spite of all the (electronic, social, cultural and other) distractions.
Yesterday’s microbiology, I found a few packages of sealed petri dishes. Rather than opening the new packages, he suggested using reusable glass salad plates. There is hope.

So … where do we go?
TEACH.

Last month there was a SA article of the social effects of grandparents starting late in human evolution.
Perhaps we have lost some of this with grandparents (even parents) more concerned with their golf scores (lap times) than their grandkids’ (even children’s) complete and continuing forever education.


Best,
Grady

Honestly it's fine by me. I kind of like the looks of bewilderment from others sometimes, due to being younger but also being the person who takes care of our cars and who did all of the work renovating the last house we lived in. The slowly expanding collection of tools in the garage is kind of cool too. They usually more than pay for themselves on the first job, and anything after that is just a bonus.

The core of our history is one of building, from the ground up, a country.

Along the way, technology blossomed.

By now, most everything is done.

There is less to "make" and technology has made much of it easier and quicker than ever.


On the subject of youth, the trend is disturbing, but there are still gems out there. My new assistant, just 21 and fresh out of school, is a doer that anyone here would be proud of.

I'm encouraging the quality which is something we should all do. Reach out to young people when you can and show them how gratifying it is to build something, anything. They won't do it spontaneously, just need a little guidance.

I don’t see this as a USA issue – it is worldwide. We just seem to be at the forefront but followed closely by (I won’t post my ‘short list’.)


It is that “…look of bewilderment…” from the “watchers” to the “doers” that is absolutely frightening.
Eloys and Morlocks

Best,
Grady

I actually have quite a bit in common with Supe here... I utterly H-A-T-E paying someone to do something for me. I can't stand it. I find the notion revolting and offensive and on the rare occasions that I do it, I always have the bitter taste in my mouth afterwards that comes from feeling like one has been ripped off, used and taken advantage of - even if I've paid a "fair" market rate price. I'm an odd duck I suppose - a lot of people don't "get" me and wonder why I spend so much time doing stuff by myself that I should "just hire someone to do" - yard work, house improvement stuff, fixing cars, bikes and motorcycles, building my own computers, moving, etc.

Perhaps it's the way I was raised, or perhaps it's my constant need for a challenge and a feeling of accomplishment in something. I get ZERO satisfaction out of taking (for example) a car to the mechanics, forking over money and getting it back "fixed"* By contrast, even though it might be "inefficient" or "illogical", I get a lot of satisfaction out of diagnosing the problem, figuring out the solution and implementing it. And (perhaps more importantly) I TRUST it.

This is something I've noticed with virtually any service you hire out - the quality sucks, almost universally. I'm a detail-oriented person and although I can understand that someone hired to do a job is going to slam it out in the interest of packing their schedule and getting onto the next job in order to maximize revenue, I think this model/methodology has gotten way out of whack - there's literally NO quality in anything anymore, from restaurant service to hiring a plumber or an electrician, to body shops to car mechanics to landscapers - you name it. It's all just fast and cheap and who gives a f*ck. It irritates the living hell out of me and just galvanizes my resolve to do things myself, properly, with the appropriate level of care, concern and pride in workmanship to appreciate something when it's done, and to trust it will work and last a long time.

I could give examples by the hundreds of "half-assed / half-fasst" stuff I've run into both in my personal life and professional life on job sites. Un-be-freekin-lievable stuff. We've become a society obsessed with the "having", the end product and have completely devalued the effort it takes to get there. A "big house" that's a complete POS, built poorly with crap materials that will fall apart in five years is somehow valued and looked upon with envy in our society but an 80 year old house (like mine) that's built like a Sherman tank, with craft and care evident is somehow looked upon by most (other than the oddballs like me) as being "outdated". Same with our 911s. Most people wonder why people like us spend time "fixing up those old clunkers" and don't run out and get a plastic and soulless McCamry or McNissan or McPrius. Maybe it's because some of us actually value the care, craft, design and thought that goes into things that aren't stamped out by the bazillions as cheaply as possible, with no concern that they'll break or fall apart in 1/10 of the time as a precursor.

I intend to raise my kids to value the things they have (as I do) by caring for them, putting the time and effort into researching purchases before they're made, maintaining them (not just buying a "service contract" rip off) and being THOUGHTFUL about what they consume and use. I also intend to train them to understand how things work, why they work, what can make them fail and how to prevent it or repair it. I guess I'm "weird".

- - - - -

* "fixed" means functional, but certainly not done to the same quality of workmanship and/or care that I'd put into it

It is an international problem, but you do see some places where it is a bit better...like Germany (not that they do not have problem with youth), but their system of apprentiship seems to be raising a goodly number of doers, albeit they happily use the latest CNC stuff to do it. I can live with that. I learned to cut threads with a die and make metal things using a hammer, heat, files and other manual tools. No need for that now, but I did learn how metal wants to be which was useful.

I too think that the first levels of craftsmanship should use largely manual methods to give a feel..then the automated stuff can kick in.

D.

Lately I've been having more stuff done for me. Too many decades of doing stuff. After you fixed so many lawnmowers and chainsaws, rebuild so many engines and suspensions, etc it isn't fun any more. I do some stuff to save money - particularly plumbing in the house because it's so easy and professional plumbers charge so much.

I went to a car show recently, spoke with an old guy which did an incredible custom car, very classy. He said he did not use the Internet and did not own a computer. I told him it was a good thing because it allowed him to build and "do" instead of post and watch. If he were posting his car's progress instead of just working on it like he did, he might never have finished.

A couple of observations, some which have separate threads on PP:

An odd timidity has crept in with some kids...and parents. They seem set on avoiding risk at all costs, not realizing mistakes and a little knee scrape now and then shape kids more than any organized sport.

The most amazing reflection of that is the fact that a healthy percentage of kids do not apply for a drivers license when they are eligible!

Too many kids go to college. I think the stat is 70% of kids attend college at some point. We have lost sight that blue collar jobs are just as valuable as white collar jobs.

Life it ownself has indeed become very easy...and here is where I depart into GOML land. I had to work on the ranchette when I was a kid and I mostly hated it, especially after I got my DL.

But the work was there, it was mine to do and there was no way around it. So I did it and learned to work, to shoulder the responsibility even when I truly didn't want to. Learned behavior.

The ease of life in America has taken a lot of those important work opportunities away. Even when kids could be taught to work, many of my friends don't make their kids work...friend of mine has three boys and a large lawn. He pays a yard service, which I find ridiculous.

There are lot of good kids out there.

For those that havent read it, "Shop Class as Soulcraft" is a good read for those pondering this question...

Shop Class as Soulcraft by Matthew B. Crawford