Massive Indy Car crash at Vegas

[intakexhaust]

It strikes home when one witnesses death. The late Greg Moore at Fontana during the CART era. What a waste. Greg was fearful of the oval but accepted it and learned to go fast. Wrecks and death are inevitable but bullring racing for open wheel really is absurd. To you IRL fans - think about that for a moment.

[artplumber]

Originally Posted by Doug&Julie

He never brought his own money. That, and the timing and circumstances of his leaving Panther last year. He had signed with Andretti to replace Danica full time for next year before this race.

Just so very, very sad....

Thats the thing that sucks the most. He was trying to go from tail end charlie to win to collect the prize money. He really deserved better.

[Joe Bob]

So, what started it? I heard a suspension failure?

[930LDR]

While I never had the opportunity to know Dan personally, I knew enough of him through his presense on-air and in the car to know that we've lost a truly great champion and sportsman. It was so obvious that he was in it for the absolute love of the sport. Rest soundly #77.

[intakexhaust]

IRL SUCKS! No disrespect for Dan Wheldon and feel sorry for his family. Just a little more on my rant of what IRL really is and as I mentioned before. Enough said.

The following is quoted by a promoter as reported by Robin Miller:

Of course we’re not depending on ticket sales and I think we’re going to come in right on budget.”

Bernard’s original idea to help draw a crowd was offering $5 million to any non-Indy driver who could win Sunday’s race. Kasey Kahne and Alex Zanardi were interested but only if Roger Penske and Chip Ganassi provided cars, which didn’t happen since they’re battling for the title again. X Games hero Travis Pastrana also had interest before breaking his foot.

So now Dan Wheldon and a fan could split $5 million if the two-time Indy 500 winner can come from last to first on Sunday afternoon.

Bernard still wants to run a Friday road race around a casino followed by a Sunday show at LVMS but thinks that probably couldn’t be feasible until 2013 or 2014.

His immediate goal is to get a decent crowd and TV rating on ABC while going up against the National Football League in a city that traditionally only supports NASCAR.

“I’d love to see 60,000 but I guess I’d be happy with 40,000,” he admitted.

With oval tracks vanishing from the schedule because no promoters want to take the risk, Bernard was asked if Vegas and self-promoting was a template for the future?

“I want to see what happens, what worked, what didn’t and then re-evaluate,” he replied. “I think the city wants us to be successful and I guess we’ll know by Sunday night.”

Robin Miller brings 40 years of experience to his role as SPEED.com's senior open-wheel reporter, and serves as a frequent contributor to SPEED Center and Wind Tunnel with Dave Despain.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by chocolatelab

I cant believe that there werent more fatalities.

It's a fluke. Mike Conway who hit the catch fence at Indy had just as hellacious of a crash and survived to drive at Long Beach in the first part of this year. That was about 9 months later.

Justin Wilson is still out of the car with a back injury and he hit nothing that I know of.

I don't know if any medical information has been released on Wheldon, but if he got hit on the head by one of the poles holding the fence, that is the kind of fluke I'm talking about. It could be a lot of things.

Sort of a Senna deal where is piece of suspension pierced his head.

[Doug&Julie]

Originally Posted by Joe Bob

So, what started it? I heard a suspension failure?

..literally the slightest touch between two wheels. James Hinchcliff's right rear barely brushed the left front of (driver I can't remember) and he started a long, lazy slide. Then cars started collecting behind him...and chaos. I think four cars in all literally flew.

Indycars shouldn't be doing this kind of "pack racing", where the cars can all go flat out and never have to lift. I love Indycar racing and want to see a nice balance of road coarses and ovals, but not this kind of oval. Going flat out all the way around isn't really racing.

Just so sad....

Another nice tribute to Dan: pressdog.com: Dan Wheldon

[Icemaster]

Originally Posted by intakexhaust

IRL SUCKS! No disrespect for Dan Wheldon and feel sorry for his family.

Give it a rest. Pretty $chitty when you take someone's death and use it in your personal crusade, whatever the F that is. You want to rail against IRL, start another thread.

[Doug&Julie]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Justin Wilson is still out of the car with a back injury and he hit nothing that I know of.

The current Indycars aren't designed to take an impact vertically, at least not as well as from the front/sides/back where there are crumple zones (for lack of a better term). A driver as tall as Justin (who's one of my favorites, for the record) has to sit on the floor of the car with very little (if any) padding to protect his back in the case of even the slightest compression. Justin hit what equates to a speed bump, but without the vertical padding, his spine took a direct hit. He'll tell you he can't remember if it was the first "hit" or the second, but he knew right away that his back was in serious trouble.

FWIW Paul Tracy had a similar injury in the then new Champ Car DP01 from his car simply climbing a wall a little and then coming crashing down. No vertical support.

I believe I read that the new Indycar addresses this. Not sure to what extent.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Icemaster

Give it a rest. Pretty $chitty when you take someone's death and use it in your personal crusade, whatever the F that is. You want to rail against IRL, start another thread.

He does seem to be more angered by this than others. Something personal I would guess.

Originally Posted by Doug&Julie

..literally the slightest touch between two wheels. James Hinchcliff's right rear barely brushed the left front of (driver I can't remember) and he started a long, lazy slide. Then cars started collecting behind him...and chaos. I think four cars in all literally flew.

Indycars shouldn't be doing this kind of "pack racing", where the cars can all go flat out and never have to lift. I love Indycar racing and want to see a nice balance of road coarses and ovals, but not this kind of oval. Going flat out all the way around isn't really racing.

Just so sad....

There are those that agree that flat out around the whole track is not racing including the outspoken Robin Miller. I can agree on some points while supporting other points.

The videos of the crash are not clear enough to ascertain a whole lot but one thing is clear, Wheldon failed to slow down as did at least one other driver. Hence they wheel climbed the car(s) in front and went airborne towards the fence.

I remember a kart race I was in at Willow Springs and there was a big pile up on the first lap in the second turn, a long sweeper. I saw it start to develop in front and started to take evasive action. As I was moving to go off track into the dirt to escape hitting a kart upside down in front of me, I got hit from behind and sent out of control. I had it made before the bonehead behind nailed me. While sliding, spinning in the dirt more karts kept coming into the crash. I thought what the hell are these guys doing back there? What are they not seeing to keep on the gas and plow into the mess? You can't expect much by the way of intelligence in kart racing, especially mid to back of the pack.

Wheldon was on a roll having picked off 10 spots in 10 laps in very crowded conditions. There are a lot of faults to blame. 34 open wheel cars on a 1.5 mile track is not a good recipe. There will be fallout from that alone.

But, there were several drivers that were not regulars in the Las Vegas field and there is definitely going to be some fallout from that. One more in the field than the 33 that start the Indy 500 on a track that is a mile shorter with higher banking and yet the same speeds as Indy is the real problem here.

[SAM DACOSTA]

Originally Posted by Zeke

In retrospect, I think the ABC coverage sucked. I sorta got the idea they knew more than they told and kept the audience around to fill out the time slot and make the audience watch more commercials. It may not be true, but I lost my respect for the whole INDY car thing.

And if Cheaver was part of a purposed delay, then he just got knocked off his high horse for good. Same with Goodyear. Wheldon was probably a better man than to be sucked up into that 5 million dollar, start from last, sleazy, bull riding circus.

I hope some good comes from this because the whole show stinks.

Maybe they did but it wasn't until after the drivers meeting that they were officially informed and I'm glad they didn't speculate but waited until they had confirmation.

The $5 million package was an incentive but that was not a factor, as these drivers run flat out majority of the time, not for $5 million but simply to win. Too many cars, 3 wide on an oval track, with an aggressive banking, traveling in excess of 220+ mph is just bad news, when one of them gets into trouble. I truly hope the series does not suffer from this tragedy but insterad they use it as a learning tool and make improvements.

NASCAR made tremendous improvements after they lost Dale Earnhardt Snr. and their sport continues to grow.

R.I.P. Dan Weldon.

[artplumber]

Originally Posted by SAM DACOSTA

...
The $5 million package was an incentive but that was not a factor, as these drivers run flat out majority of the time, not for $5 million but simply to win. Too many cars, 3 wide on an oval track, with an aggressive banking, traveling in excess of 220+ mph is just bad news, when one of them gets into trouble. I truly hope the series does not suffer from this tragedy but insterad they use it as a learning tool and make improvements.

R.I.P. Dan Weldon.

I disagree. Wheldon was w/o a ride this year & the $5mill was for a non regular driver if he won from the last starting grid position. He deserved a regular seat up front of the grid where he belonged, not having to drive superaggressive from the back of the field

[Buckterrier]

Originally Posted by Icemaster

Give it a rest. Pretty $chitty when you take someone's death and use it in your personal crusade, whatever the F that is. You want to rail against IRL, start another thread.

+1 Geez, no doubt.

My cousin was married to Scot Brayton when he died at Indy. I sent her an email this morning since this accident will be a very hard thing for her.

Geez Zeke you're more of a conspiracy theorist than I. I don't like Cheever . Think he is a very pompous individual but I thought he was spot when he said...

"Every time a driver straps himself into a car he knows that death is lurking some place in the shadows and you work very hard to make sure the circumstances do not turn against you. Today they did and they turned against Dan, and he is no longer here."

Very compelling stuff.

[URY914]

CART stopped running (edited) on banked tracks because of the speed and danger. Randy Banard needs to resign and maybe even IRL needs to go away. The whole idea of IRL cars on banked tracks reminds me of the old movie "Rollerball".

Actually, CART did run on banked tracks--quite a few of them. Greg Moore was killed on the oval at California Speedway. In Texas one year, they had to cancel the CART race because the g-forces were so high that drivers were passing out.

love the ovals, but 34 cars at Vegas (more than Indy, which is a mile longer) is lunacy.

My heart goes out to Dan's family.

[SAM DACOSTA]

Originally Posted by artplumber

I disagree. Wheldon was w/o a ride this year & the $5mill was for a non regular driver if he won from the last starting grid position. He deserved a regular seat up front of the grid where he belonged, not having to drive superaggressive from the back of the field

I understand your point but as a racer he runs flat out and if you look at the video footage from his car, when the accidents happens he seems to not have lifted and was more trying to drive through but got caught and paid the ultimate price. Wasn't he guaranteed a ride for next year replacing Danica? I'm sure the money was an incentive but he would have driven flat out regardless. Coming from the back of the pack has it's added risks but getting of the gas would have done him some good.

Too many possibilities or potential reasons why this happened. As some have said, 'it's the inherent risk when you go racing.'

R.I.P. Dan Weldon.

[lonewolf]

Originally Posted by intakexhaust

It strikes home when one witnesses death. The late Greg Moore at Fontana during the CART era. What a waste. Greg was fearful of the oval but accepted it and learned to go fast. Wrecks and death are inevitable but bullring racing for open wheel really is absurd. To you IRL fans - think about that for a moment.

Did you know Gregg Moore personally?

[artplumber]

Originally Posted by SAM DACOSTA

I understand your point but as a racer he runs flat out and if you look at the video footage from his car, when the accidents happens he seems to not have lifted and was more trying to drive through but got caught and paid the ultimate price. Wasn't he guaranteed a ride for next year replacing Danica? I'm sure the money was an incentive but he would have driven flat out regardless. Coming from the back of the pack has it's added risks but getting of the gas would have done him some good.

Too many possibilities or potential reasons why this happened. As some have said, 'it's the inherent risk when you go racing.'

R.I.P. Dan Weldon.

Not just the cash prize. He always had to prove himself because he didnt come sponsored like hildebrand or danica patrick. Dont you think that if he was not trying to pass as many as possible he would have been more likely to brake at an accident? Flat out when racing is different than avoiding an accident. Oh & I dont think there is enough on the video to see if he is slowing or having a problem slowing

[SAM DACOSTA]

Originally Posted by artplumber

Not just the cash prize. He always had to prove himself because he didnt come sponsored like hildebrand or danica patrick. Dont you think that if he was not trying to pass as many as possible he would have been more likely to brake at an accident? Flat out when racing is different than avoiding an accident. Oh & I dont think there is enough on the video to see if he is slowing or having a problem slowing

Excellent point, I never looked at it from that thought pattern.

[intakexhaust]

Yes to knowing Greg Moore. Also, I'd like to share some comments personally from other drivers about the oval thing and IRL but those are their career choices some live with and it's not my place to further talk for them. The Greg Moore situation at Fontana reflected of what some CART team owners did not want but we all know the story line. Furthermore, call it railroading IRL as someone likened, but until you know the real story and where the root of the league is, you might understand. The unfortunate statistics of injuries are proof compared to F1. An IRL tub is a semi-truck compared to an F1 car. There is no perfect safety open racer, but you tell me how or why those tiny F1 cars are so much safer in impacts. With the exception to Monaco, the F1 circuits are so much evolved towards driver safety.