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Cars & Coffee Killer
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: State of Failure
Posts: 32,246
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FFL123.com
www.ffl123.com
Found an ad for this website in a magazine this week and it got me thinking. I know that home-based FFLs have become very difficult, but this is something I might eventually be interested in. I also think it would be nice to have a Class III, but that seems like a seriously high set of hurdles. Anyone know where I can find a reference on state and local laws related to FFLs? I think the biggest hurdle to an FFL or Class III would be the State of Illinois...
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Some Porsches long ago...then a wankle... 5 liters of VVT fury now -Chris "There is freedom in risk, just as there is oppression in security." |
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10-21-2011, 05:27 AM
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Dog-faced pony soldier
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Also I believe a Class III gives the ATF the right to ring your doorbell any time - day or night - just to check up on your storage/security of such devices. Granted it probably doesn't happen (I had a former roommate with a Class III and they never knocked) but it sounds like they really could make your life a living hell if they wanted to.
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10-21-2011, 05:36 AM
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Class III's grow on trees in AZ. They're way easier to get than a home-based FFL. All it takes is money. I'd be surprised if IL is that easy on class III's.
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10-21-2011, 05:51 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2003
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You can get all the info from the BATFE for free. And online, the BATFE has all the state gunlaws, etc. that you have to adhere to as well.
Biggest thing that is stopping "kitchen table FFLs" is business zoning. Gotta have all of that taken care of, otherwise it is a quick denial.
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“IN MY EXPERIENCE, SUSAN, WITHIN THEIR HEADS TOO MANY HUMANS SPEND A LOT OF TIME IN THE MIDDLE OF WARS THAT HAPPENED CENTURIES AGO.” |
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10-21-2011, 05:52 AM
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The guy I went through in VA was home-based and he was shut down two years ago because of a "sudden change" in zoning regs. That's how ATF does it now. They just deny you if you have the slightest local zoning reg. issues. Pretty sure just about everyone would have these issues if they were really looked into. I think most HOA's ban home-based businesses. Need a business license, OSHA compliance, ADA stuff, fire exit and on and on and on.
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10-21-2011, 06:52 AM
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Cars & Coffee Killer
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: State of Failure
Posts: 32,246
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Sounds like a load of BS to me.
1) Who cares if you have a "kitchen-table" FFL? Plenty of people sell crap on eBay without a business license or the proper zoning, and they are not harassed. 2) Why does the ATF think it is in the business of enforcing state and local laws? I don't believe any federal agency has such authority.
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Some Porsches long ago...then a wankle... 5 liters of VVT fury now -Chris "There is freedom in risk, just as there is oppression in security." |
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10-21-2011, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
One of the conditions of having a FFL is "complying with all state and local laws and regulations". So if your state/county/city requires a business license and proper zoning, the BATFE will make sure you are in compliance before issuing said FFL.
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“IN MY EXPERIENCE, SUSAN, WITHIN THEIR HEADS TOO MANY HUMANS SPEND A LOT OF TIME IN THE MIDDLE OF WARS THAT HAPPENED CENTURIES AGO.” |
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10-21-2011, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
The worst thing about is that ATF is seemingly the only gov't. agency that wants you to turn a profit. In fact, absent a profit motive, your application will also get denied. They don't want gun nuts getting FFL's just for the purpose of getting good deals for themselves and their friends. They want you to make a business out it. That way they have more power over you. If it's just a hobby, you can just say "eff it" anytime you get tired of their BS, tear of up FFL, mail in your records book and you're done. But once it's your livelihood and you have a business running, you'll do whatever it takes to keep them off your back.
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2022 BMW 530i 2021 MB GLA250 2020 BMW R1250GS |
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10-21-2011, 07:29 AM
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Dog-faced pony soldier
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I'm sure the current administration discourages such patently onerous policies and behavior too...
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10-21-2011, 08:01 AM
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B58/732
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Hot as Hell, AZ
Posts: 12,313
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In "today's environment" having an FFL without a storefront is practically inviting a government-sponsored anal probe.
I'd recommend you go for a C&R and develop an antique spoon hobby instead.
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10-21-2011, 08:34 AM
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Considering Illinois has some of the worst gun laws I find it odd that Illinois also has a huge number of gun manufacturers. How many of those manufacturers make class III weapons? Maybe I'm confusing Class III with NFA. Either way, R Guns is a Class III dealer and they're in Illinois.
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-Mark B. Hardware Store Engineer 1988 911 - 3.6 1999 SL500 - Gone 1995 M3 - LS2 - Gone 1993 RS America - Gone Last edited by GG Allin; 10-21-2011 at 09:04 AM.. |
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10-21-2011, 08:42 AM
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I'd pay $1000 for someone to put their name on my FFL and take mine off.
Then on line 35 of the 4473 I could write "clerk" instead of "owner". Jim
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10-21-2011, 09:01 AM
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