The challenge of living within ones means

[mossguy]

Twobone, while you are being frugal and saving money, remember to take a sunshine vacation while your wife still looks good in a bikini!

[patssle]

You have to have balance of savings but living life. Yes you can die tomorrow. Or in 30 40 50+ years. You just don't know.

I'm 26 and I put away about 15% into savings every year. But I also take an annual 3 week vacation that costs a couple grand plus of course personal projects such as the cars and other hobbies. It's all about balance.

[dmcummins]

Good for you.

[Hugh R]

I recently did another thread on this. The number of people who have REAL retirement savings is shockingly low. I make good money, but live well within my means. I could buy a GT3 cash and hardly blink (OK, not choke too much) but I bought a new Camry Hybrid for cash instead. I'm 57 and plan to work until I'm 65, but if I got laid off tomorrow, I could live OK for the rest of my life.

As far as what to invest in,that is another question.

[Chocaholic]

I'll say it first.....................hookers and blow.

[Dueller]

I have enough money put away to live on the rest of my life. That is, if I die this Saturday.

[Evans, Marv]

Bite your tongue, Jim.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Nobody cares about your money more than you...but many brokerage houses are very good at hiding fees in their statements.

Fees matter...a LOT!

Like I said, buy the book...

do it

[teenerted1]

move into a lower price neighborhood then it will the the others trying to keep up with you while you are saving for later

[Noah930]

Originally Posted by mossguy

Twobone, while you are being frugal and saving money, remember to take a sunshine vacation while your wife still looks good in a bikini!

Then I guess it's back to saving for me.












I keed, I keed.

I can only post comments like above from work, and not from home in case the Mrs. happens to glance over my shoulder.

[Instrument 41]

A few thoughts on this.
For the married guys with kids and/or teenagers making 80 to 100K, it takes most of that to live (Insurance health, home ,life etc..., food, school activities, simple vacation once a year). The older you get those "kid" expenses start to fall. As this happens, with most folks, the "borrow money to buy things to impress people that you don't know" syndrome starts to go away.
But you are right in your original statement. Live off less you make and stay out of debt. Of course thats easier said than done when a medical emergency cuts you off at the knee's, loose your job at 50, divorce......

[tevake]

Go way to go Twobone, fiscal discipline and self restraint, you and your family will win in the end! And enjoy the benefits.

Don't we wish some of our national leadership on both sides of the isle had practiced some of those qualities over the last couple decades. And would realize the need to do so now!

Cheers Richard

[Crowbob]

Twobone,

You are on the right track. Unless you are seriously underwater, DOWNSIZE and tell the kids and wife they no longer can have whatever they want.

P-O-P,

If they take the 401K's (which they will) NOBODY will be buying real estate any time soon, like not in the next 15 years. RE has not bottomed out yet, but certainly will when they take the 401K's. Taking the 401k's is hitting the reset button with the subtlety of an earthquake, volcano and hurrcane all at once.

Why would they take 401K's? Because that's where the money is.

[duncan1437]

Originally Posted by twobone

...Its true, I'm kind of cheap....My wife complains that I'm too focused on retirement and that we need to enjoy life more now....we could be dead at anytime...

i'm the same as you. pretty frugal by today's standards. in hindsight, it has served me very well.

but make sure the better half agrees with your financial/lifestyle choices, or you might find half of your hard earned life savings being spent by some new Good Time Charlie.

just another perspective....

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

I'm sure I won't either, but I'm trying to look at it rationally. RE is a great inflationary hedge right now. This was a HUGE motivator in getting me to go out and buy the place I have now. I'll be sitting pretty when high inflation hits and I'm paying off my reasonably-priced mortgage with dollars worth 1/2 of what they are today down the road.

Why not do the same with more units? If nothing else, just get them to "break even", hold for 20-40 years and then sell off as necessary in retirement. At least you'll have preserved your buying power against the effects of inflation.

I really think that inflation (not deflation) is going to be the BIG worry here in very short order. You don't just pump trillions of dollars into the system without consequences, and the Fed is continuing to do it every chance they get.

Take advantage of the cheaper money of tomorrow today... That's my strategy anyway.

Good luck on that...but if you are leveraged to the hilt? You'll really need a ton of luck.

[silverwhaletail]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

I can't believe I'm saying this but I think one of the best moves long-term a person can make right now is Real Estate. The market has cratered (maybe a little left to fall but not a whole heck of a lot in most markets), rates are low and given the surge in demand for rentals, it makes some sense to snap up what you can now, hold it, rent it and be paying it off with highly deflated rental revenue dollars down the road. I'm seriously considering this - I recently bought my first place for many of the same reasons and may very well buy a rental property (or two or three) as a retirement/long-term revenue generator. I certainly am NOT counting on Social Security and honestly I'm not counting on my 401k/IRA very much these days either...

PoP, you are an odd fellow.

You have done nothing but ridicule us "slum lords", year after year after year here on PP, every single time that real estate as an "investment" has been mentioned. You have repeatedly beaten the "real estate is a loser" gong, again and again and again.

Are you really that dense, that you are just now "getting it?"

Investment RE is s i m p l e. It always has been.

-buy multiples, preferably 4 plexes. No single family residences. ever.
-never buy anything that does not have a laundry room for your commercial machines. (no laundry hookups inside the apartments)
-only buy 2 bedroom (or more) units.
-never buy for principal appreciation. (if it happens, then turn the money. or lease a brand new Ferrari)
-never buy a property that does not positive cash flow from day 1.
-always turn all profits back against the principal.
-never show a net profit on year end taxes until two years before you sell.
-never buy a building that the financials do not show being owned free and clear at the 9 to 12 year mark, assuming all profits are turned back against the principal. (the exception would be un-avoidable big ticket maintenance/rehab incidents)
-never higher a management company. Ever.
-never use a general contractor for a rehab. Bid each trade individually. Purchase all supplies/materials yourself. Check progress every single day.

-pay all of your bills on time. Maintain a very high credit score. In the late 1990's, I was an $80,000 per year cop and I owed Citibank ALONE over 2 million dollars. Credit/Leverage is the name of the game. No Credit = No Game.

Right Now, There is an 80 unit complex available in east Jacksonville, Florida. It is 80 units. 72 (2) bedroom units and 8 (1) bedroom units. Asking price is 2.1 mill. It could be purchased at 1.9 or so, at well under 25k per unit. Rents are over $600 for the (2) bedrooms and over $500 for the (1) bedrooms. they are acknowledging $35k per year from the laundry facility.

Assuming $400k down and financing $1.6 mill at 5%, after analyzing the executive summary, I see that pay off at just under 10 years, turning $7,500 per month back against the principal.

In less than 10 years, you would be looking at $25k to $35k per month NET.

It's a great deal. But my point is that there are great deals all over the country. There are always great deals. Somewhere.

I've been laughing at you "401k guys" ever since I came on PP. "Dollar Cost Averaging", "7% historical average return", "a million dollars when you retire", blah blah blah.

What about inflation? What about liquidity? What about taxes? What about a financial legacy?

Building a profitable investment RE portfolio takes years, unless you are very lucky, or are very connected. And it is a heck of alot of work. You can't have it "taken out of your check" every two weeks like you can when playing the 401k game.

It hurts to have skin in the game. But No Pain, No Gain.

[pwd72s]

Sage advice, Silver...There are many paths to the same goal. But as I posted earlier, I don't have the mental/emotional makeup for being a landlord.

I will say that the real estate I sold, and still hold a contract on, gave me a springboard for other investments...which have done pretty well overall.

[Baz]

Yeah I've done my "belt-tightening" part as well....now down from six to only three Porsches!!!

I cannot cut back any further.....life then would not be worth living!


One of my heroes is Clark Howard.....I try to tune into his radio show as much as possible and have picked up some great tips and info from him....

Clark Howard: Save More, Spend Less and Avoid Rip-offs | www.clarkhoward.com

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Tim Hancock

To be honest, I just had it taken out of my check and put it in whatever the investment company thought sounded good based on my age/risk/category. Once a year or so I occasionally have it adjusted/balanced. I HATE dealing with/worrying about financial matters. In fact my wife pays all bills and does all the banking. So long as my PayPal account works when I need to buy something for a project, I am good and would rather not think about/deal with finances.

Yeah, I should be more involved, but I enjoy life most when I am spending my time thinking about hobby projects vs how to make more money.

We are soul mates in spite of what I have said about small aircraft in the past.

But anyone who can even think about the future and saving now is in a good spot. Work is terrible in SoCal. I've lost anything saved, the Porsche and soon to be the tools.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

The rules of the game have changed considerably. RE was a very stupid "investment" for the last few years however I see some benefit to tapping this asset class now.

As I've said above very high inflation IS coming and government raids of retirement accounts are also coming. It makes sense to have an inflationary hedge to preserve ones dollars for retirement. I see RE as a decent option now to accomplish that - not to get rich off of.

Situations do change as do market conditions - there's no "one-size-fits-all" magic formula or point of view that'll work all the time.