Thanks for the insight. I'll stay where I am AFA computers go. :)

I think that your "skillset" is UNIQUELY qualified to "build a better mousetrap", re: computer sim-racing "rigs".

These things sell for $500 for the basic unit, and then the cost goes up as you add accessories.


How much would it cost in materials for a clever, gifted welder/fabricator to build these things in his garage, get them powdercoated, (source the seat from Summit Racing or ????) and then infiltrate the online racing world and sell a BETTER, MADE IN THE USA PRODUCT, for less money?

Add in the fact that Milt is in the prime Los Angeles marketing area....

and maybe you make a couple bucks on shipping...




go to InsideSimRacing - Welcome and then look around under "simrigs"

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1324952131.jpg

First of all, if you can buy that for 500, it's a deal. Probably made overseas. Secondly, I have been in a manufacturing business in a previous life. Then, much later, I had a shop for building my own proprietary door products. I don't want to go back there.

I always thought I would have been the best number 2 man a company could have. Creative and industrious have been my strong suits. Writing checks and balancing the books are not. Maybe I lack the overall direction needed in any situation. But give me a task no matter how large and I will find an efficient way to accomplish it.

Notice I said "number 2." I can't answer to multiple people and I won't.

Milt, I don't get the impression that you want to move so this isn't advice. But just imagine how much different life would be if your HOUSE PAYMENT (not rent) was $750/month. Or if you didn't want a house, your apartment was $500. I've spent time in CA on work trips and hanging out with friends and observed that everything was more expensive, that includes groceries, gas, etc. My friends that live there also observed that utilities and taxes were dramatically more expensive than KS, simply because of the additional "honor of living in CA" taxes added on. But yes, your truck will cost the same........but probably more to insure.:p

With that scenario, suddenly $40k is an adequate wage. I'm by no means making big money but I'm able to support a wife and three kids, have a nice house, decent paid for cars, etc. CA beats the hell out of KS for weather and scenery, but I don't like it enough to be poor there.

Your housing dollar definitely goes a lot further in the heartland than on the coast, that's not debatable. Hell, your housing dollar goes a lot further in the San Fernando Valley than in the good part of L.A. and that's 5 miles away. Go 25 miles inland and prices drop dramatically. But you get what you pay for in terms of quality of life if you are a big city person and demand better *stuff* around you.

The whole idea of big cities is that you can make a lot more money and have a lot more fun. The more money part offsets the higher cost of everything. It's not a good place for wage-earner type people anymore. That sucks but it's the way it is.

+1 to whipped and speeder.

Milt, what about teaching at a tech institute or a community college?
Sometimes administration will create a new course if there is the demand and an experienced teacher available.

One school I went to was exceptional, and the profs had the practical experience and answers that released workers(not graduates) out into the world.

I used to live in the middle of Missouri, shared a very very large house with some friends, had a 2.5 car garage and a 4 car driveway, giant backyard, I had the master bedroom with vaulted ceilings, master bath, walk in closet, etc. Rent and utilities (my share) were always less than $400 a month. I could have easily lived on $12,000-$15,000 a year.

I now live about 50 yards from the sand in Hermosa Beach, CA. My rent is $2K a month, which is cheap compared to my neighbors (I scored a deal). I spend nearly double on meals. A case of beer is $4 more expensive than it was in MO. That adds up.

Yet I never want to move back. Funny how that works. I'd rather be poor and live here than be there and be loaded.

Hand in hand with cheap labor is technology. Paint is an example. Once upon a time, you had to be pretty decent to paint -- that was with oil based paints. And, it was a mess to use.

Next, came latex paints. The brush strokes leveled out a lot better. It was water cleanup. But IIRC, it was limited in where you could use it. Then it got better and more versatile.

Today, the chemists (who are high-dollar guys, right) have made paint so easy to use and so good at adhesion and self--leveling that anybody, even me, can do a decent paint job. That allow cheap (unskilled) labor to produce a good result -- good enuff. And it also allows DIYers to avoid hiring any labor at all.

That is just one example -- there are lots of others. For example, power woodworking tools and steel jigs. Any bozo (me again) can cut a set of dovetails and make drawers or cabinets.

So, I don't know what is going to happen to the trades. I expect they will contract and there will be a limited number of true craftspeople, many of whom are really artists. Everybody else will be eliminated -- that's true even where I live where people are quite willing to buy handmade products, and support local products.

If you are not going to go to college, then I think you need to pick something that cannot be outsourced -- nursing would be one example. Come to think of it, even if you DO to college - lots of it - better pick something that cannot be outsourced - the plight of US radiologists comes to mind...

You do know that's all DEAD in our state? With our huge housing boom back a few years ago, you would think there's a real need in the construction trades and at the Universities. Now that they don't need anyone in industry, they have a few courses at the university level. Still only a few universities offer construction management as a major, given the amount of schools we have in our state.

You can still spot a skilled tradesman at work though. I hired some painting done and watched them work for a while. They were very efficient, never got in a hurry but got a lot done in a small period of time. There were NO drips or spills. Contrast that with a doofus I hired to do some odd jobs for me. I figured anyone can paint, so I put him to work on a small job. Nope. He rushed around more than the pros, but took forever to get anything done and got paint on everything. I admire tradespeople who are skilled at what they do. They can only be replaced by unskilled labor if you don't care about the quality of the job.

We replaced our front door with a custom wood door we had made at a local lumber yard door manufacturer. The builder's door was just a steel clad cheapie that was secure but ugly. I was smart enough to tell my wife to hire a pro to get it hung properly. It is the first thing guests see when they come to our house. It had to be secure and done right.

The guy that showed up had an helper that was only a helper. The installer was obviously experienced. He removed the old door, the frame and threshold in short order and was down to the studs. He put up the new door on and the new storm door in short order. He never stopped and had to do something over. The door opens and closes just like a door should and the lock is just a simple twist with no jiggling or pushing on the door to get it to lock.

I am sure he hated me watching his every move but I was just trying to learn any techniques or tricks of the trade. It was fascinating to watch and a pleasure to have it done the way it should be done.

The only point to this is that there are still skilled craftsmen out there, but finding them is the tough part.

Our schools have cut back so much that they no longer offer musical instruments in elementary.

No chance of getting a job teaching. There are too many credentialed teachers in the unemployed ranks. I'm starting the new year early. I'm off today to patrol ans see what's shakin'. I know a few places to stop by to catch the wind, if there is any.

Zeke- Reading your post tells me you are way above working in the trades these days. If your building something, you must have some creativity. I can relate to much of your situation.

First off, I have family in Long Beach (one is in teaching) and Riverside (excavating related) but I'm in the now dreaded state of Illinois. Given the state of the economy, they are struggling with some of the cost of living and income adjustments. If you're living in that area, you have to be in a stronger financial position and in no way just to be a tradesman. For me, I could stay in Illinois but the ideology of government from the local to state levels and the tsunami of tax burdens tells me its time for a change and ready to move out.

I also play with cars, (also sold high end cars years ago), worked in the corporate world with executive positions and balanced my working life with years in the trades building residential. I'll admit, my favorite was building as at the end of a day visually seeing something done having that good tired feeling. I also had small side ventures from store to warehouse (with partner) and built a few e-commerce websites. With that said, I think I've seen and done quite a bit and all had positives and negatives. You mentioned the comfort level of being hands-on and not so much as the books. I wish that was true but you have to sacrifice and learn the budget and overhead game in life and business. Also, never count on a business partner who only wants to do the books..... never, never, never.

So here I am today, my tools have been tucked away but always ready for some project. However last year a hobby inspired me again to start another business from ground zero starting small manufacturing to service a niche group however I'm more focused on a patent and a high volume product. At my risk to protest and break traditional manufacturing greed, (only because right now I don't have to support other families), all of it will be purely sourced and produced in the US. Years ago a marketing agenda of products made in USA never meant that much but I think today it is and I'm willing to stand up and do it. My attitude is always push forward and avoid losers personally and in business. Also, with your situation, try to avoid the constant negative news (CNN ;).

One thing I observe during these trying times, people in this country always find a way with stupid money. Women buy expensive shoes (made in China of course), teenagers buy the most cr@p but men are the worst. I used to laugh when I sold Porsche's, BMW's, MB and a buyer would tell me its a good investment. What??? If you have it, enjoy it but rarely is it a 'good investment'. So use your creativity, shift gears and find others stupid money. Best wishes to you in 2012.

The "google IT issues" comment reminded me of a somewhat ironic/funny situation a few years ago. New customer with a E39 comes in with all sorts of odd electrical gremilins that over a course of a few weeks rendered the car almost not driveable. This customer had an aftermarket mechanical warranty with a $250 deductible.

Issues were: wipers had a mind of their own, so did the audio/nav system, check engine light on with the trans in limp mode and after scanning the vehicles network more codes/symptoms than you could imagine.

Because these vehicles are networked (like an office building) this was a huge task given to me especially when dealing with a warranty company. Short story was after nearly two complete days of diagnosis and fault-tree elimination the core problem traced back to a shorted wiper motor park contact switch from water intrusion; resulting from a partially plugged firewall compartment drain (leaves and plant debris) It wasn't noticable right away because there was very little debris. BUT if it rained hard enough OR long enough, the water level would just get high enough to come through the shaft seal and soak the control board.

Customer, a VERY impatient woman starts calling at lunch time the first day. The service writer said that the problem was complex and may require more time but that the warranty company had already approved it. Further more if she needed a rental car we could provide one.

I finished the car the morning of the third day and she picked it up at lunch time. The warranty company covered the entire bill ($2300) but for the deductible. I am eating liunch and she INSISTS that she wants to speak to me directly.

She walks into the lunch room and looks at me (name tag ID) and starts BERATING me on how incompetant a 'mechanic' I must be taking sooooooooo long on finding the actual cause of her breakdown. That SHE is in IT and ALL THEY ever do is "GOOGLE THE PROBLEM" for an IMMEDIATE resolution.

She finishes her 'rant'. I finish my mouthfull of sandwhich. I said WE have a DIRECT LINK to BMW FACTORY technical support as well as 2 other BUSINESS-TO-BUSINESS technical resources that this company PAYS for. Why would I do that? Furthermore, when I was in IT back in 2000 there was no "google IT issues" you had to actually FIND the CAUSE of the PROBLEM!

I had to physically fault tree diag down to component level to eliminate all possible contributors ..........which led me to my final diagnosis and correct repair. Which means in laymans terms I removed both front seats pulled the trim and carpet up. some of the console, the main wiring and harness ground connections. Unplugged and re-assembled modules; there are over 30...... until I isolated the core component.

That is what skilled, experienced technicians do. Whether it is your vehicles network or an office building network someone has to actually find the specific problem and prove it defective so as to not waste time, money and other resources.

I do not know why you are upset?? The warranty company footed the bill, the car is fixed correctly.

She turned and stormed out the door in a 'huff'.........................muttering "UH!!!..........Mechanics!"

I am sure this is an age..
 

old rant from customers feeling like they are being overcharged. From asphalt above, I see both sides but if the woman drives an E39, she can expect to pay higher $ for servicing. I drive a 2001 Boxster and knowlingly expected higher service charges from my indy repair place. However transparency I think is essential here. I should be able to go in and see what the mechanic is doing and talk to him. This not allowed due to insurance bs frosts me. I need proof of what is wrong and repair shops can reduce doubt. If anybody is trying to scam me with phoney repairs, blatant misdiagnosis etc, then I will take legal action if necessary. So far being a man, I have not been scammed by a a repair shop. I am sure lots of women have and they should take their man along to prevent this. There are many good repair shops out there but I am sure there are a huge number of unhappy customers because they dont want to pay for good service. As in asphalt above. You cant win them all. SmileWavy

The shop that works on my Boxster when I can't do it calls every day with an update. I know, because I had a problem like gamblers lady. However, I'm more patient than the lady.

Gambler, you handled that nicely.

Sixty, you must be in a bad mood. That doesn't sound like you. You haven't been around very long but I had a different feeling about you than what you show there in you post.

I personally know many hundreds of millwrights, welders, pipe fitters, and machinists who have steady jobs and NONE of them are working for $15 an hour. All are in the $30 to $40 range or higher.
Just because there is an ADD for $15 does not mean that is what the trades are paying. So what if some mickey-mouse fab shop in someone's garage is looking for a newbie or flunkie with barely passable skilz and who is willing to work for $15. There are always bottom-feeders out there trying to offer peanuts to those who are desperate but they don't represent.

I had openings for 5 journeyman machinist/pump mechanics (basically millwrights) earlier this year, but I only hired 4 because I could not find the 5th that had the experience and knowledge necessary.
The guys I hired did not fully meet the journeyman requirements but I decided to hire them anyway and train them to get them up to speed. It was either that or nothing. The rest I turned down were not even close.

They started at $31 and change and will be moved up to just over $34 as soon as they pass a fairly simple certification test, and will be making over $38 an hour by this time next year.

There are good paying jobs out there that companies cannot fill because they simply can't find top notch skilled tradesmen. There are plenty of goobers available but companies are very selective nowadays and won't settle for just a body like they might have done in the past.
Employees have to perform.
Employees who make top dollar have to perform at a very high level.

Since I hired these guys, another machinist retired so I now have two open positions I have not been able to fill.
Note that these are very specialized jobs but anyone who has worked for at least 5 years as a millwright in a refinery, chemical plant, power station or on other industrial rotating equipment should have the necessary skills.

I got all kinds of applications and resumes from guys who worked on a VW bug motor once, or who watched someone else work on a pump or turbine or read about it in a popular mechanics article, or consider themselves real handy because they own a cresent wrench.
But very few actually had the real knowledge or experience.

HR told me they are not even going to try and fill those two positions for at least another 6 months.
They feel it's a waste of time because there just are not qualified millwright/machinists out there looking for work right now.


If you are interested in working as a welder and have that expertise, you could go down and get your card at the union hall and get your name on the books.
The days of marginal workers stumbling into high paying jobs without really putting in any effort are gone, but for those who are willing to go the extra mile and have the experience and drive, there are good paying jobs available.

The local millwright hall is pretty much empty when you exclude the burned-out-buddies who only want to work enough to keep their bennies and unemployment up to date.
If someone wanted to go through the apprenticeship program and be a millwright they could start off at $50k the first year (with lots of OT) and be making over $100k a year in 4 years (again lots of OT), assuming they could hustle and work hard and had a clue enough to keep the employer happy.

But because the trades are more competitive today than it used to be, an unproductive or unreliable employee will have a hard time getting or keeping work.

How my post relates to this thread is: Clearly, (to her) I was considered nothing more than a "mechanic/grease monkey" who was wasting HER time and money by not "googling" the problem, and thus the fix. In her view my skills were worth-less because "the answer" is supposedly a few "clicks' away and the repair........"minor"

I found her take on this situation almost incredulous because SHE was in IT!! Whether she was on the nuts-n-bolts side OR in programming, she was in a technical profession herself - I would have never thought her view of this would be sooooo narrow.

Call me cranky...
 

if you want but all it takes is a few bad apples and includes customers and some repair places. I put great indy repair shops on a pedestal and I give them the benefit of the doubt. I keep going back to repair shops that do good work. I establish a good rapport with them and they get to know our cars well. I feel that if a repair shop has lied to me about work that needs to be done and does not have to be, then this is fraudulent. I can always get a second opinion. Once bitten twice shy.

This also applies to building contractors that want too much money ahead of work done and take off with your money with little work done. We had a deck built two years ago and we got about 5 quotes. We then got referrals with the contractor who seemed the best to work with. The result was total satisfaction. Cranky? No. You should have seen my smile when the work was done. I was a waiter to the workers for several days giving them coffee, donuts etc. I have total respect for the trades and they deserve to be rewarded for the good work they do. However customer rapport is important. Sometimes you great mechanics but they could not talk their way out of a paper bag and vica versa. As regards ornery customers, that is the flip side of the coin.

Are you kidding me? If they have to spend the time to answer your questions, then you should be charge for their time every time you visit the shop area just so you can see what's going on or if they are doing their job according to you. Ask them as many questions as you like, stop them dead right in the middle of their work. HEck, you are paying for it. Their time is money too just like anyone elses. When I work on people's homes, I hate the nosy neighbors coming over to see the progress and starts yapping about craftsmanship after they see one too many HGTV. I put up with it. When I am not there, they start this crap with my workmen, then I will let them have it. If their house needs work, then I spend sometime with them and answer their questions. If I sense that they don't need work, they can fook off as far as I am concern. Currently, I am working for a nut job, but she's actually rally nice with deep pockets. This woman gives me a schedule as to which week we can work and which we can't and what part needs to be done according to her liking. We are taking the 40 days off right after Christmas. BEcause of her deep pockets and her willingness to pay for down time, I put up with it, if not, we shake hands and still be friends and move on. The other contractors told her to take a fly and left. Only I am dumb enough to put up with crap like that.

So, do you want to pay for their time just to chit chat? I have done the same, I go and walk under the lift and start asking lots of questions and hang out there for a bit talking. I quit that long ago. What's wrong with talking after the repair's done in the office?