Lubrication

[RWebb]

this topic has come up in specific ways on many threads, but I thought we might have a thread devoted just to lubrication

Here is my contribution:

[Chocaholic]

Made a big difference when I had my prostate exam last week. Thanks for posting.

[M.D. Holloway]

[M.D. Holloway]

[M.D. Holloway]

Here is an ad I wrote...it never made it to the intended mag. Wonder why?

[javadog]

Ahh, another completely pointless thread. But, while it's up here, I'll ask a question of the guru of lube...

I have a bunch of Suzuki motorcycles. The ones sold in America are supposed to use Grease "C" for everything that gets lubricated with grease, while the identical motorcycles made for sale outside of the USA use Grease "A" for the same parts. The uses include needle roller bearings used in the swingarm, tapered roller bearings used in the (steering) triple clamps, speedometer drives, etc. Grease "C" is a lithium soap multi-purpose grease while Grease "A" is unidentified. It does have a different appearance though.

My two questions... Any idea what Grease "A" might be? Any idea why the different specifications?

In the photos, Grease "A" is in the larger can, on the right.

Thanks,
Jeff

[M.D. Holloway]

Both are most likely lithium based greases - can A maybe a lithium complex. Either way, they are nothing 'special'. The grease requirements for your bike or even car are pretty mild compared to the requirements that have to be met in industrial or heavy equipment applications.

i don't like the fact that the grease in can A looks like it is no longer smooth or buttery. Check out the way there are cracks in it. Thats a great indication that the grease was not milled properly. It won't hurt you too bad to use it but it given an opportunity to use a better grease I would opt for a new can.

One why to check if those grease will play well together if mixed - take equal parts of each grease and mix them in a can or paper cup. When you think you have them homogenious stick a screwdriver in the middle of them and see if the grease can keep the screwdriver from falling to the side of the cup. if it falls it means the thickener of the grease has become de-gelled and that the two greases are not compatable. If the screwdrive stays upright than they are mostlikely compatable.

Check out this chart...

[M.D. Holloway]

Here is a chart on grease performance I put together. This helps shed light on the different tests that are run and what they mean.

The Premalube Xtreme is a Calcium Sulfonate grease that is really wiz bang - a bit over kill for auto applications...

[M.D. Holloway]

here is one for Engine Oil...

[craigster59]

I have a friend who owns a personal lubrication company that manufactures all kinds of gels and creams. He started over 30 years ago, Elbow Grease was his first product, the number 1 lube among the gay males in the U.S. He told me that back in the "pre HIV/ AIDS" days he would deliver an average of 2 of the 5 gallon buckets of lube to each bath house in New York.

[javadog]

Lubey, thanks for the reply.

Originally Posted by LubeMaster77

Both are most likely lithium based greases - can A maybe a lithium complex.

Can A is definitely a lithium soap-based grease, as it says just that on the can. Can C is unlabeled as to type. My main questions is what would make a manufacturer use different greases in different markets? There is USA grease and everywhere-but-USA grease. Same bike, same riding conditions, same weather extremes... These are bearings that are lightly loaded and very low speed. And, you can buy either can in the USA, so they are in the USA parts supply chain, unlike other parts for specific markets outside the US that are not.

Originally Posted by LubeMaster77

i don't like the fact that the grease in can A looks like it is no longer smooth or buttery.... given an opportunity to use a better grease I would opt for a new can.

Oddly enough, that is a new can. The other one is probably 20 years old, or more.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks,
Jeff

[M.D. Holloway]

It is not uncommon for OEMs to change or update MRO products and keep the older version around for use on older equipment - the service manual may call out for it specifically. The odds that these greases are fundementally different in performance is pretty remote.

The greases are different in respect of color and consistancy and maybe even chemistry. There are some greases that are not supposed to be made or even used in the states (Barium based) and certain addtives can't be used without serious warnings (Antimony). Regulations maybe a reason for the change as well.

[javadog]

How can you identify the type of a grease? Obviously color and cosistency are clues but what else is available to the average joe?

What other greases might be "light tan"?

What's the issue with the use of barium grease in the US?

JR

[Superman]

Yeah, but do we have anyone here who understands lubrication products?

[M.D. Holloway]

Originally Posted by javadog

How can you identify the type of a grease? Obviously color and cosistency are clues but what else is available to the average joe?

What other greases might be "light tan"?

What's the issue with the use of barium grease in the US?

JR

There are a few tell-tale signs. The most popular (common) grease you will find in a auto parts store is a lithium grease. Those grease will actually have a sweet smell to them. They should also say LITHIUM on the label. The next would be the non-melt greases. These are thickened with clay and have an earthy smell. The label may or may not say it is made from clay but these grease typically are used in high temp applications and they do not melt when heated. These grease are also known to NOT PLAY WELL with other greases - the mixture will liquify. Think of what soap does to mud - same thing here.

If a grease is bought from a heavy equipment dealer like Cat, John Deere or the like it may be an Aluminum Complex or even a Calcium Sulfonate but those will be pricey.

As for Barium - heavy metal, EPA says its a no no now. Same for Antimony. Some greases that were white (pigmented for food grade applications) used Titanium Oxides have to have a cancer label on them becasue TiO2 are considered cancerous in the powder form. Stupid thing is, TiO2 will never ever get to a powder form when its blended into a grease but hay, thats the EPA for ya! Now food grade greases will be un-pigmented and look like snot.

[M.D. Holloway]

The color of a grease means nothing. We make a red grease becasue there are a lot of customers that like red grease - they claim they can see it when it is on their equipment. As for performance - it makes no difference.

I patanted a bearing purging grease and had it made bright orange. I did that because no other grease that I could find was bright orange and that way people knew when the bearing was successfully purged of old grease becasue a bright orange grease would start coming out.

[javadog]

The can of lithium grease smells like...



wait for it....




...grease. It doesn't smell as bad as a moly grease, but it smells worse than a couple Valvoline EP lithium greases I have laying around.

The mystery grease smells like the paste we used in kindergarten and first grade to glue things made from construction paper. It's similar to the smell of the lithium greases, but much lighter.

I also have a waterproof grease on hand with an aluminum base and it smells a lot like uncured RTV silicone. It's got a fair amount of that vinegary whang. Nasty...

JR

[M.D. Holloway]

Water proof huh? Try this, apply a generous amount of grease to the palm of your hand. Run tap water over the grease while mixing it with the fingers from the other hand. Within seconds you may notice a radical change. The grease may turn a light milky color. The grease is being emulsified. The grease may even completely break down. You may be able to see the palm of your hand that previously contained grease. If this is what the grease will do in your hand under minimal stress and water, imagine what will occur in a bearing or journal that comes in contact with water, steam or condensation under stress!

Excellent grease will not wash out and will actually be very difficult to remove from your palm even after a generous amount of water has been applied.

There are three components of a grease - the base oil, the thickener, and performance additives. Traditionally, the base oil was considered the major component. In many conventional greases it can be found to be 70% to 95% of the grease. Because of this reason, many bearing manufacturers consider the base oil viscosity to be a predominant factor in grease selection and approval for their products. The fact remains that, with recent technological developments in the two other components (thickeners and performance additives), the base oil has become less of a determining factor and more of a component of a synergistic effect among the three.

The second component is the thickener. This is what gives the grease its body. The thickener is typically how grease is characterized, which can lead to confusion and in some instances misrepresentation. Producing a thickener can be a very complicated process. One manufacturer may attempt to produce one type of thickener for grease only to have it fall short in performance compared to other products of the same thickener type. The raw materials used and the manufacturing process may dictate if a thickener will provide superior or marginal performance. The thickeners chosen may be simple metal soaps, complex soaps, synthetic organic thickeners, or inorganic gelling agents. In many instances the thickener is referred to as the soap of the grease even if it is not chemically defined as a soap. This is becuase the first multipurpose grease formulas were calcium, sodium or lithium soaps. Thickeners can account for 2% to 40% of the grease.

The performance additives incorporated into the grease formulation provide specific functionality such as rust and corrosion resistance, oxidation resistance and even improved lubricity when additives such as molybdenum disulfide or graphite are used. These chemicals, both solid and liquid, can account for 1% to 25% or more of the final grease formulation, depending on what performance criteria and targets need to be met. In the table I provided earlier, the various type or classes of base oil, thickeners and performance additives are listed. This list is very general and should not be considered complete but rather offered as an indication of the various materials that are used in combination to achieve performance.

[RWebb]

can't we just keep on using clay as a thickener?

it worked in Wyoming on the wagons...

[recycled sixtie]

the above poster about his doctor and prostate. Overanalysis leads to paralysis. Your thread on lubes has totally seized me up. Where are the vicegrips......