"Book Time" vs reality

[trekkor]

Shops tend to charge a flat rate.

So, I'm not a diesel mechanic.
My '01 F-350 had a check engine light for the #3 glow plug.

Ford wanted three hours, plus parts to do this job. Around $400.

I did it myself, standing on a saw horse in 1.5 hours and $15 for the plug.


Why the gougery?
I mean, really, these guys do this all the time?

Next time, I'll do it in an hour.


KT

[Aurel]

Hey, I lay my tiles myself too. Why the gougery?

[URY914]

Ouch!

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by trekkor

Shops tend to charge a flat rate.

So, I'm not a diesel mechanic.
My '01 F-350 had a check engine light for the #3 glow plug.

Ford wanted three hours, plus parts to do this job. Around $400.

I did it myself, standing on a saw horse in 1.5 hours and $15 for the plug.


Why the gougery?
I mean, really, these guys do this all the time?

Next time, I'll do it in an hour.


KT

because people like me Can't do it themselves.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by trekkor

Ford wanted three hours, plus parts to do this job. Around $400.

KT

Isn't this the problem?

[boosted 89]

Not to doubt the gougery but is it possible they quoted you "worst case senario" price. Sure it mat have only taken you an hour and a half but what if the glowplug broke off flush with the cylinder head while trying to remove it. There goes the 1 1/2 hrs. With older vehicles it's hard to determine the time it may actually take to repair. Book times do not include rusty or seized repair times, just time it takes to remove/repair something at that time when new. I will admit that there are some places that take advantage of the situation.

Chris

[rattlsnak]

most book time includes going out to the parking lot, getting the vehicle, diagnosing, repairing, and a warranty.

[cstreit]

I used to feel this way untill I became good friends with a Sr. Porsche Mech at a Dealer.

So as mentioned above... Yes, it was 1.5 hours labor for you. ...but...

There is diagnosis time. They can't take your word for it. THere's no risk to you if you're wrong, all the risk is theres. So they can't take your word for it. There is no warranty when you do it. Finally the dealerships have other procedures prescribed by the manufacturer that they must do when they do a particular type of work. For example: When simply changing brake pads they might also have to clean calipers, bleed the fluid, check the dust boots, lube sliders, check brake line condition, etc... Many other procedures outside of just swapping a pad.

...and for every job that's 3.0 hours book that takes them 1.5 hours, there' another one that's 3.0 hours book and takes them 6.0 because bolts are frozen, other shtuff is broken around it, screws are stripped, etc...

[JavaBrewer]

Originally Posted by URY914

Ouch!

+1 but true. One of the fantastic things about the internet are sites like YouTube. Don't know how to do something...find out in a handy video.

That said there is an art to laying tile and frankly not many people have the patience or skill to do it right. But if you watch someone who knows what they are doing a couple times it's pretty basic really. Follow the steps and don't take shortcuts. I think that applies to many labor related crafts.

[KFC911]

[QUOTE=JavaBrewer;6479989...That said there is an art to laying tile and frankly not many people have the patience or skill to do it right. But if you watch someone who knows what they are doing a couple times it's pretty basic really. Follow the steps and don't take shortcuts. I think that applies to many labor related crafts.[/QUOTE]

+1. I tackle LOTS of things that I've never even watched someone else do. I'm picky, and do a first rate job on everything...but I am SLOW, ...takes me forever...did I mention I was SLOOOOOOW. By the time I'm finishing up, I'm a lot faster, but a pro would do it in a fraction of the time than I can imo. I also do a lot of little things "while I'm at it" that if I would not if I were "on the clock". Grouting...I despise grouting with a passion .

[trekkor]

The diagnosis on this was a 30 second session with an OBD2 reader.

Glow plug #3.

Ford wanted to charge me $110 just to code it.
I took it to a friend's shop and he read the code.

I bought my own reader.
Diagnosis was having the tool...


KT

[trekkor]

I told the dealership, that has been servicing my truck for the last 11 years, that I didn't appreciate them quoting me $1000 an hour to code the truck.

It was about 4:45pm when the code showed up before I was due to go on a road trip.
I called my buddy with the independent shop, he stayed open after hours and read the code for me.
Assured me the truck was safe to drive. Did it for a handshake.

That means everything to me.


KT

[Evans, Marv]

Must be the stealership. I had two codes on my F350 7.3L & had a friend read them for me. I fixed one and wanted it read again to see if that code went away. Didn't have time to go to my friend's place & took it to the nearest dealership, that I hadn't been to before, and they read it for me for free. If your dealership has been doing that to you for the past 11 years, I would think you would have noticed before now. It is hard to judge if you haven't been through it or some similar things before though.

[DanielDudley]

The real answer is that you have an 01 off warranty. They are not in business to fix your old truck, they are in the business of selling and servicing new trucks. After a few repairs like the glow plug, you are supposed to trade in and be grateful for the warranty.

Seriously, this is why.

[DanielDudley]

BTW, the local Ford dealer that I have never done business with, fixed my beat up old truck a few years back. Failed ignition module, 140.00, done in one morning with no appointment.

I didn't have to lift a finger, and a buddy towed me there for free. It is always good to have a friend. Of course, I had helped him to do his roof, so it is all relative.

[Superman]

Originally Posted by trekkor

Ford wanted to charge me $110 just to code it.

I'm with Zeke. You keep mentioning this word, and that might be the problem.

[Esel Mann]

Is it possible that the #3 glow plug is easier to get at than the others?

Hence if you were to change one or more of the others it would involve more labor?

[widgeon13]

Book time is always "worst case" scenario. That's the way they make money, screwing people.

[trekkor]

The glow plugs are under the valve covers.
The right side has #'s 1,3,5 and 7.

It's the harder of the two to access.
Once the valve cover is off, each glow plug is easy and quick to replace.

I've done enough mechanical work to feel comfortable doing this type of thing.
People that aren't are just stuck, I guess.


KT

[rattlsnak]

Originally Posted by trekkor

The diagnosis on this was a 30 second session with an OBD2 reader.

Glow plug #3.

Ford wanted to charge me $110 just to code it.
I took it to a friend's shop and he read the code.

I bought my own reader.
Diagnosis was having the tool...


KT

This shows how little you know about the diagnosis tree. I PROMISE you the code didn't say "replace #3 glow plug". I'm sure it said something like, #3 glow plug circuit high, or low, or open or something like that. Yes, this USUALLY means that that affected part is bad, but not always. What if you would have put the part on and the code was still there? They wont take the part back and now you have to get the book out and trace wires, run diagnostic tests, etc. Those are things, the dealer does before they condemn the part itself.

Not saying the dealer costs arent high, but they do have a lot of overhead and the diagnostic tools are not cheap. Most of todays vehicles can be updated/repaired by doing software updates, which can only be done through their system. The advantage of using a dealer is that they are ultimately familiar with your vehicle and all the bulletins, etc associated with it.

But you can thank Ford for the flat rate system. It may have saved them in the 20's, but its time is long gone. Unfortunately, the customer is the one who takes the hit.