44 mag and Chinese ammo

[dyhunter]

I don't post much but enjoy reading OT everyday. Not sure if this is a repost or even true (sent to me from a crazy aunt-n-law) but I thought some might find it interesting.

enjoy

Dave



A guy came into the police department the other day to ask a favor.
He had a S&W 629 (44 Mag) that he wanted to dispose of after a mishap at the range.
He said there was a loud bang when he tested his new ammo, (Chinese made), and the gun smacked him in the forehead, leaving a nice gash.
When the tweety birds cleared from around his head, the pictures show what he saw.
Bet he never uses Chinese made ammo again. Looks like when the round in the chamber went off, it also set off at least two other rounds in adjacent cylinders.
I would have hated to be the one who pulled the trigger on that one!

[porsche4life]

Wow, that's a cool trick!

[azasadny]

Old story and pics. Every time the pics get sent around, the story is different. Last time, it was "reloaded ammo"...

[porsche4life]

I'd like to see the real story. Either way, somebody chambered a round that was wayyyyy too hot.

[Jeff Higgins]

Those very photos have graced the bulletin board of my gun club's pistol range for over a decade.

[9dreizig]

well I own that exact model 44 mag.. scary regardless of the story

[Jeff Higgins]

Had to be a double charge of some fast burning pistol powder, like Unique, 231, or something like that. One of the reasons I have always used powders whose appropriate charges fill the case in question. Unique and 231, for example, will fill .45 ACP cases to the base of the bullet, or pretty darn close, and double charges will spill over. Not so in the .44 mag (or similar large cases), where appropriate charges of these faster powders less than half fill the case. I prefer slower powders like 2400, 296, or H110 in the .44 mag; appropriate charges of these fill the case to the base of the bullet, and double charges will spill over.

[svandamme]

i find it a rather odd failure.

How would 2 rounds would go off without a primer hit?
There's a friggin chamber around that 1st round, and the energy from whatever load that was in that round can goe out through the barrel and then it goes in towards breaking the chamber.


Those 2 rounds sitting to the side, sure they might take a dent, but that brass doesn't crush that easily, and just denting a round won't make it go off , now won't it?
Never mind going off with that bullet on the left moving a bit, but just not much.

The only way i can see this happen, is if there was some kind of weakness in the revolver to begin with and maybe a major overcharge in the round.

[fred cook]

The only one that I trust is the Ruger Redhawk or the Ruger Blackhawk. Even though S&W heat treats the cylinders for additional strength, well, you see what happened. There is an ammunition manufacturer in Atlanta that uses the Ruger Redhawk as a proof gun. If it will take proof load pressures, then it should be good for pretty much anything on the market. The rounds that blew up the Smith might have been rifle loads not intended for revolvers. I would like to see what kind and how much powder is in the remaining rounds!

[mossguy]

Originally Posted by svandamme

i find it a rather odd failure.

How would 2 rounds would go off without a primer hit?
There's a friggin chamber around that 1st round, and the energy from whatever load that was in that round can goe out through the barrel and then it goes in towards breaking the chamber.


Those 2 rounds sitting to the side, sure they might take a dent, but that brass doesn't crush that easily, and just denting a round won't make it go off , now won't it?
Never mind going off with that bullet on the left moving a bit, but just not much.

The only way i can see this happen, is if there was some kind of weakness in the revolver to begin with and maybe a major overcharge in the round.

I would guess that the adjacent two rounds didn't really "go off", but were torn off/apart by large pieces of cylinder moving rapidly through them, and burning the powder after the fact,

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by fred cook

The rounds that blew up the Smith might have been rifle loads not intended for revolvers.

There is no such animal. All commercially loaded ammunition is safe in any gun, rifle or revolver, chambered for this round.

Originally Posted by fred cook

I would like to see what kind and how much powder is in the remaining rounds!

Like I said, a double charge of fast burning pistol powder is what blew this gun. I've seen a number of them in this condition. Had a guy right next to me at the range blow the top strap off of a Ruger Blackhawk in .41 mag one day. I took all of his ammo home, pulled every bullet and weighed every charge. The remaining rounds were fine - it only takes one. So, in the case of the Model 29 we see here, it's likely the remaining rounds wouldn't tell you anything. They are probably fine. Just one moment's inattention at the loading press will lead to this.

Originally Posted by mossguy

I would guess that the adjacent two rounds didn't really "go off", but were torn off/apart by large pieces of cylinder moving rapidly through them, and burning the powder after the fact,.

Exactly. The other two did not "go off". It's likely the blast did not even ignite the powder in them. Smokeless powder is one hell of a lot harder to light than most folks think. I've demonstrated time and again that one can actually extinguish a match, or a cigarette in a pile of the stuff. It has to be contained, and the primer blast is a great deal more powerful than most folks think. We shoot plastic bullets indoors from the .45 ACP and .45 Colt with no powder in the case, just a primer. They get buried pretty deep in the newspaper we use to catch them.

[fred cook]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

There is no such animal. All commercially loaded ammunition is safe in any gun, rifle or revolver, chambered for this round..

Hmmm, sorry, not so! There are several different rounds that can and have been loaded to either pistol/revolver OR rifle levels. The little 32-20 round comes to mind along with several others. Besides, most cartridge cases won't hold a complete double charge, especially if it is a "high performance" load. Today, cartridges are supposed to be loaded to a standard pressure level (varies with the cartridge) that is safe in any firearm chambered for that round. However, that always was not the case. Assuming that the S&W had been tested with "proof" loads during the design phase it should have been strong enough to not experience the destruction shown in this example. The load in that bad boy almost had to have been something like the wrong powder or perhaps the gun had been exposed to incorrect loads earlier causing a structural defect in the cylinder. A personal experience involving some 357 mag loads that had been double charged only served to lock up/bind the movement of the cylinder when fired. Those rounds had actually been double charged, a situation that was allowed by the type of powder used which was not a normal pistol powder. I do believe that an analysis of the remaining rounds would shed some light on the cause of this blowup.

[legion]

I think the assessment is correct that only one cylinder was overcharged and the shrapnel damaged the other two cylinders.

That said, the only thing that could cause three cylinders to fail simultaneously would be a common ignition source. I'm sure you could do it if you tried by angling drill bits to drill through cylinder walls while the adjacent cylinders were loaded, then carefully loading a special cartridge that lined up with those holes, but heating the gun from the top with a torch would be so much simpler...

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by mossguy

I would guess that the adjacent two rounds didn't really "go off", but were torn off/apart by large pieces of cylinder moving rapidly through them, and burning the powder after the fact,

they do look blown out on those pictures , that cylinder coming off couldn't have done that.
Neither could the cylinder have pushed that bullet forward...

everything in the picture looks like those 2 rounds to the side, did have ignition.

[on2wheels52]

afaik there hasn't been chinese ammo (or firearms) imported for ten years or so. Think it goes back to the Clinton days. Even back then I don't remember any rimmed revolver ammo from China (boatloads of 7.262 x 39 though).
Jim

[vash]

mmmm...chinese ammo!

the problem with it is: once you are done shooting it at the range..30 minutes later, you are ready for more shooting.

[Rob Channell]

I always thought about something like this when one of the old fellows at work told me about his favorite load. He said it was easy to remember because it was 24 grains of 2400 with a 240grain jacketed hollow point. I remember looking it up and finding the max load to be something less and thinking was crazy.

I do like how the Smith exploded up and out, but not as much back towards the shooter.

[Rick Lee]

There was a fascinating article in the American Rifleman (IIRC) a few years ago about the US sabotaging captured enemy ammo in Vietnam and overloading 7.62 rounds to produce something like 200k psi, killing anyone who was unlucky enough to use it in his AK-47. Eye protection might help you with a pistol like the one above. But it'd not save you with 200k psi, especially if you were aiming and had it close to your face. Wish they'd had some photos in that article.

[sammyg2]

As previously stated, that had nothing to do with Chinese ammo.
Just an internet urban myth made up by someone who hates China and wanted to make fools out of people.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by vash

mmmm...chinese ammo!

the problem with it is: once you are done shooting it at the range..30 minutes later, you are ready for more shooting.

Hahahahahah, now THAT'S funny!