Reloading and Primers

[Taz's Master]

Vash, the key to shooting alot alot is this: .22lr. Shoot a couple hundred rounds of .22, then bring out something more substantial. Take time with the .22 to focus hard on technique, then afterwards 24 rounds of .44mag, or 25 rounds of .308 to give time on a bigger weapon and you can then switch back to the .22 and work on what you need to correct, for very little money. Plus if you enjoy reloading, a single-stage is relaxing and you can still make enough to shoot cheap.

Actually the real key to shooting very frequently is shooting in your own yard. When you don't have to pack up and fight traffic and deal with a crowded range, shooting 3-4 times a week isn't a big commitment.

[Tanick]

Jeff, that's interesting thanks. The best result I get with factory ammo is with Sako 156g Game Point but they are slow, only about 2150 ft/s with a moderator on the rifle. I'll try to get some of the heavier bullets and see how fast I can push them. I need to hit 2450 to be deer legal in Scotland where I try to spend a week every year out after Red Stags.

[Jeff Higgins]

Factory loaded 6.5x55 ammunition is typically loaded to very low pressures so that they are safe in original Swedish Mausers. Norma is an exception, loading their stuff right up to pressure levels enjoyed by modern rifle rounds. Last I saw, they listed a 160 grain round nose right at 2,500 fps.

Handloaded ammunition can easily exceed that. Using a very slow powder, like Alliant's Reloder 22, the 160 grain bullet can touch 2,600 fps in a strong, modern action.

So, is there some kind of minimum kinetic energy requirement that a load must meet to be eligible to hunt red deer? Or is it just a flat velocity cutoff, regardless of bullet weight or caliber? Lighter bullets at higher velocities in any given caliber will always generate more kinetic energy; as velocity is squared (mv^2), thereby unrealistically weighting speed more than mass. These high kinetic energy numbers tend to impress the impressionable more so than they impress the animals...

Give me bullet weight over velocity any day, especially in a caliber like the 6.5 Swede. Even at the moderate velocities you've seen from the Sako load, it will be a better killer (especially on an animal the size of red deer) than the lighter, faster loads.

But, in the end, the law is the law, so you must comply. The good news is that you can easily, safely exceed that 2,450 fps threshold with the 160 grain bullet using the correct powders. Your rifle is more than strong enough to handle modern day pressures.

[legion]

Just to muddy the waters a bit...

Large rifle primers aren't really the biggest rifle primers you can get. There is a size bigger that is used in .50 BMG and 20mm.

And then there are shotgun primers, of which there are several kinds that are all the same size.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by legion

Just to muddy the waters a bit...

Large rifle primers aren't really the biggest rifle primers you can get. There is a size bigger that is used in .50 BMG and 20mm.

Where do you order those?

[Tanick]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

So, is there some kind of minimum kinetic energy requirement that a load must meet to be eligible to hunt red deer?

England and Scotland have different legal systems for some archaic reason, and whenever they can the scots like to change things just a little to make it awkward.

In England:
Muntac and Chinese Water Deer - min cal .220, ME>1000 ft lbs and bullet>50gr
Roe, Sika, Fallow, Red - min cal .240 ME>1700 ft lbs which means bullet?100gr

In Scotland
Roe - bullet>50gr, MV>2450 ft/s, ME> 1000 ft lbs
Red, Fallow, Sika - bullet>100gr, MV>2450 f/s ME>1750 ft lbs

I don't think scotland has and Muntjac or CWD. They are escapees from stately homes in the South East of England and haven't spread that far yet, although the munjac will be working on it.

All very complicated, especially as the Reds in England are generally bigger than those that live on the scottish hills. I took my first last October, only a small one but I'll post a pic if you're interested.

[Jeff Higgins]

Interesting requirements those darn Scots have imposed. They would make perfectly good sense if one were to exclude the muzzle velocity requirements (as the English have), which are just high enough to exclude many a fine hunting round. Apparently, some game department twit has decided that, say, the .458 Winchester Magnum's 500 grain bullet, pushed along at a leisurely 2150 fps, might not kill something as tough as a roe deer. Even our ubiquitous .30-30, the quintessential deer round, would be excluded. Even the vaunted .375 H&H wouldn't make it with some factory 300 grain loads. *Sigh*

Oh, and by all means - post a picture; I would love to see it.

[legion]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Where do you order those?

IIRC, I ordered a case from MidwayUSA.com. The Cabelas closest to me (Hoffman Estates) stocks them as well. I think my local range has them, though they disallow shooting .50 BMG.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1301713135/cci-50-bmg-primers-35

[dhoward]

Originally Posted by Jeff

.40 and up take large pistol.

.40 takes small primers.

[Bill Douglas]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Being "hotter" may or may not make them better suited to a given load in a particular rifle or handgun. I will say I have seldom obtained best accuracy with them,

Thanks, I'll let the guys at the range know.

[dhoward]

Here lately, some of the guys shooting Glocks that they've 'tweaked' are having issues lighting remington smalls.
My 1911 and 2011 extremely 'tweeked' always go bang.

[krystar]

Originally Posted by legion

IIRC, I ordered a case from MidwayUSA.com. The Cabelas closest to me (Hoffman Estates) stocks them as well. I think my local range has them, though they disallow shooting .50 BMG.

50 BMG Primers #35

we should have a meet at buffalo rock. one guy brought out his 50BMG right next to me. thunderous to say the least

[mossguy]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

.............. generally speaking anything .38 caliber and smaller take small pistol; .40 and up take large pistol.

.

To pick a nit, some .45 ACP cases use the small pistol primer. I usually load only the large primer cases and have put aside the small primer cases until I have enough to make reloading worthwhile.

[dhoward]

Originally Posted by mossguy

To pick a nit, some .45 ACP cases use the small pistol primer. I usually load only the large primer cases and have put aside the small primer cases until I have enough to make reloading worthwhile.

I throw mine in a box and give 'em to a guy who sells them for scrap. As far as I'm concerned, the more of these I get rid of, the less interruption in my loading cycle!

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by dhoward

.40 takes small primers.

Whew, you may have just saved a life.

The 10mm auto (which was actually the original modern .40 caliber auto pistol round, developed by Jeff Cooper and friends) used a large pistol primer. Original .454 Casull cases meant for the Freedom Arms revolvers used small rifle primers. The .38-40 (which is really a .40 caliber, in spite of the ".38") uses large pistol primers, even though it was originally a rifle round, but is mainly used in revolvers today (not "pistols", but "revolvers" but, alas, there are no "revolver" primers). One can specify large or small primer pockets when ordering .22 or 6mm PPC cases. And on and on... we could go on all day like this. Generally speaking, the only hard and fast "rule" when discussing metalic cartridges is that there are exceptions to every "rule".

[dhoward]

Very true. Just like the small/large .45 ACP.
I just jumped on the .40 because I had to change my priming system over last night.
Dillon wants my 550 back for a rebuild, and I need to load a bunch, because it will take them 10 days before they'll even get to opening the box once it arrives.