Drove a Leaf

Took one for a test drive just for the experience, It was actually a very nice little car--felt not that different from any other compact, though it was a lot quieter. Sorta like a golf cart. It accelerated as briskly as I would care to on the street. Handling and braking were fine, and the interior was very nice--quite upscale. Over all, quite nice, though it was butt-ugly.

But two things would make it a complete non-starter for me. The maximum range it can get is 90-110 miles. There's a little readout on the dash that tells you predicted remaining range. Just turning on the defroster changed it from 95 miles to 65 miles. To me, driving the thing would be a constant source of anxiety. And, it's not like there's a recharge station every block. Plus, a "quick" recharge still takes 3 hours! A normal one takes 8. So, the thing would be useless for anything other than short commutes where you had all night to recharge the car.

The real killer, though, was the price. It's a dinky little car, but it cost $38,000! Even with tax breaks and incentives (no sales tax, plus a $7500 credit for zero pollution), the thing is still ridiculously overpriced. Which may explain why the dealer had a lot full of them. And guess who gets to pay for those incentives that make the celebs who buy them feel good about themlselves? (oops--this isn't PARF)

BTW, I had my daughter with me, who is getting her masters in civil engineering, with an emphasis in environmental stuff, especially alternative fuel cars. It was hilarious to listen to her bombard the salesman with questions about batteries, payback periods, regenerative braking, etc. He couldn't answer any of them; he didn't know anything about cars--he was just a car salesman!

I like the idea of electrics, but we've got a long way to go before they will make any sense at all.

[Hugh R]

I'd have more interest in the Volt if I were in the market. Who has the luxury of owning a $38,000 car that you can't drive from LA to SF without recharging (and where?). I think hydrogen makes sense, but only if you have Nukes; otherwise they make no sense. I think I've only seen ONE Leaf on the Disney lot, and I'm pretty sure its a lease to one particular Corp. Executive who wants us to buy carbon offset (think Al Gore) for the hydrocarbons we use in the process of making features.

I have a Camry Hybrid, (wow, a republican with a hybrid, who would have thought!) and I consistently get 36 mpg in LA traffic. I've never taken it on a long trip, but I understand the mpg is about the same city or highway. IIRC, the hybrid is faster zero to sixty than the gas only version with the same size engine. When you floor it, both the engine and the battery kick in. Another funny thing, is that when parked, you can't rev the engine. It just won't do it.

Another interesting thing about the Camry Hybrid is that with regenerative braking, the front brake pads apparently will go something like 100,000 miles, or more. I'm at 6X,000 miles and I had new tires put on and the tech told me I still had about 50% wear left on the front pads.

[Scott R]

You mean the engine was "quiet," correct? I noticed a lot of road and environment noise when I was on the highway.

[Bill Douglas]

Do you know roughly how much it costs to plug it into the wall at home and do a full recharge?

[Schumi]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

Do you know roughly how much it costs to plug it into the wall at home and do a full recharge?

The leaf has a 24 kWh battery. If it was completely drained, and you paid 12 cents per kilowatt, the ideal cost to charge the battery would be $2.88

This was my math, a quick look on the internet confirms the price to be between $2 and 4$, depending on many factors.

[Hugh R]

Schumi, you're in LA IIRC the peak rate, if you use top tier electrical is closer to 36 cents/KwH. Since you're in Hermosa Beach, you probably don't use A/C like I do in the Summer. So by your math it would be about 9.6 cents per mile for 90 miles. My Camry Hybrid gets 36 mpg at $4.21/gallon or about 12 cents per mile. With peak summer rates on electricity. Of course if you can plug in for free at work, that certainly changes things.

[Flieger]

Batteries are the issue. That MIT liquid battery sounds interesting. Rather than recharging you just "refuel"- like changing the battery only quicker. Of course capacitors are the best for actually driving. Batteries are good at storing charge overnight. Their problems are that they can really only be charged about as fast as they discharge. So if you want long range but a fast recharge time then the battery life will suffer. Plus they are heavy and require hard to get elements and some nasty chemicals.

[doug_porsche]

I saw one this weekend and have a question.

The Leaf is an all electric car. And if you open the hood there is a single 12v battery.

Why is there a single 12v battery under the hood.

[Flieger]

I think that runs the accessories.

[Hugh R]

Good question. My Camry Hybrid has one in the trunk to start the gas engine. I'm not sure about that one in the Leaf.

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by Flieger

I think that runs the accessories.

Yes, computers, door locks, interior lighting, basically all of the normal accessories that any vehicle has.

Originally Posted by Scott R

You mean the engine was "quiet," correct? I noticed a lot of road and environment noise when I was on the highway.

Good point. I didn't take it on the highway. I bet it's fairly loud, since sound deadening is heavy.

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

Do you know roughly how much it costs to plug it into the wall at home and do a full recharge?

It said $600 a year in operating costs on the window sticker.

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by madcorgi

Good point. I didn't take it on the highway. I bet it's fairly loud, since sound deadening is heavy.

To be fair the 2012 Panamera loaner car I have this week is pretty noisy as well. Perhaps a trend these days?

[Bill Douglas]

Thanks Mike and Mad.

[Schumi]

Originally Posted by Hugh R

Schumi, you're in LA IIRC the peak rate, if you use top tier electrical is closer to 36 cents/KwH. Since you're in Hermosa Beach, you probably don't use A/C like I do in the Summer. So by your math it would be about 9.6 cents per mile for 90 miles. My Camry Hybrid gets 36 mpg at $4.21/gallon or about 12 cents per mile. With peak summer rates on electricity. Of course if you can plug in for free at work, that certainly changes things.

I daily drive a Lotus. None of this applies to me.





And my apartment uses a ridiculously small amount of electricity over the course of a year, with no AC, no heat, and a gas stove and range. My electric bill is rarely more than $20 a month. So I never even get into the 2nd tier.

[Schumi]

Also, to address why the Leaf has a regular 12v car battery under the hood when it has a huge 24kWh pack under the car the because the car's computers and accessories run off of 12 volts, and the high voltage pack for propulsion purposes is at somewhere between 300 and 400 volts DC. Now, yes, you could have a DC-DC converter, and it may have one, but for many reasons the HV pack is used for propulsion only and it's contact breakers are kept open unless your foot is on the gas. This is also a safety feature for cases of crashes/etc to keep the HV lines from being hot all the time, as they would need to be if they were to power a DC-DC converter and the rest of the car.

[Joe Bob]

In July of '12....y'all have to have a noise maker so the blind peoples can hear you and get outtathe way.....

[pharlap71]

The company I worked for partnered with Toyota on an all electric RAV-4, we also had all electric Fords and Chevs. By far the Toyota had the best set up, a real 70 mile vehicle, the others 30 to 40 miles. Take the milage they say with a grain of salt. We tested in real world situations. The drive systems and recharge seems to be adequate. The battery technology is the big hang up. We tested many different ones, some costing in 6 figures. We finally abandoned the all electric, Toyota removed the battery packs and crushed the vehicles. I am sure they used the research on their Prius. Plus when I was involved in this I remember some research that claimed the pllution generated by recharging was a wash, no real reduction in emmisions. The Hybrid I believe is the future.

[cairns]

I have to say I checked one out in the parking lot and was very impressed with the fit, finish and materials. Leagues above the Volt.

I had no idea they were $38K however.