The Surface - Is it a rival to the iPad?

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Halm

There are going to be 2 versions of this. The ARM version is what they showed yesterday. From what I have read, it will be Win 8 Lite: very low power requirements, smaller form factor, but no network client. The challenge for MS will be the Intel version. Normally this means a bigger form factor and more heat from the processor. Ivy Bridge chipset could be what they need to overcome heat and package a full blown enterprise OS in a tablet form.

Again from what I have read, look for intro shortly after Win 8 releases.

My HP Slate is Atom based. The Samsung is an i5. I think that is how you'll see the difference.

[island911]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Nah, it's Google. What could go wrong?

LOL... my thoughts exactly.

Google is not your friend.

Memory is cheap and physically tiny. Why would anyone want to keep there data on some others cloud (w/ EULA)?

[foxpaws]

Originally Posted by island911

"Would anyone 'create' on a tablet?"

You're kidding, right? Digital arts are SOOO much better with pen-based input. Not only is there the precise control, but, unlike an iPad, pen-based gives palm rejection. that is, an ipad can't tell if you bushed the screen with a finger ...er, Fat finger OR brushed it with a fat palm.

You create on some slate - really - not on a Intuos5 or something similar - I only have 2048 levels of pressure, starting with one gram... But, I guess that Slate of yours is a better tool..

Right - I guess it must be amateur night there on the island

Again, I don't create on a 'pad' - I review on the iPad, using the cloud to store locked pdf proofs so my clients don't rip me off. The cloud is perfect for sharing files, cooperating with others, getting input from many people easily. It is great for that - meeting with a client - reviewing, marking up, sharing with his partner who happens to be in Cabo at the time...

Lots of tools - for lots of different options. I have yet to see a good Microsoft option for a tablet - and they have been trying for years - maybe they got it right, but their track record certainly doesn't bode well for the Surface.

I love the worry that your porn might be seen, yet, you aren't worried when you download it - that is hilarious johnt...

[john70t]

Originally Posted by foxpaws

I love the worry that your porn might be seen, yet, you aren't worried when you download it - that is hilarious johnt...

Ok, the "cloud" or whatever is useful for some sharing applications.
Maybe I don't understand the terminology and what differentiates the "cloud" from a simple secure online data storage site with stratified permission levels and/or access keys.

But to depend on it for all personal computing? No thank you.

log: John70t ip:898372-23498732-98372
10:34am startup
10:57am Pelicanparts.com off topic discussions Who's in Denver?
11:03am Pelicanparts.com off topic discussions Tijuana, no seriously
11:12am Pelicanparts.com off topic discussions What is gonna hapen to all the SAAB's on the road?
11:18am Naughtybits dotcom post 85493
11:19am download .jpeg "two cat humping"
11:19am Naughtybits dotcom post 85495
11:21am Naughtybits dotcom post 85548
11:22am download .jpeg "blond in a ferrari"
11:25am Naughtybits dotcom post 85557
11:41am hotmail dotcom loggin name=memyselfandi360 pass=THX1138
12:15pm hotmail dotcom email sent to "marylewis @ greatmail dotcom "Here is the legal talking points for your sexual harassment lawsuit against the senator".
12:15pm hotmail dotcom email sent to "bobsmith @ gmail dotcom "got a great patent idea"
Etc. You get the point.

Simple enough. It's nobody's f'n beeswax. to be able to monitor someone's personal computer usage minute-by-minute, except an employer or the FBI with a warrant. Certainly not the company that sells the OS which makes the flat blue glow happen and the machine go ping.

[/rant]

[jyl]

Your surfing and email information shown above is already known to Google, your email server ISP, etc.

[stealthn]

I watched the whole thing live while it happened. Interesting that MS introduced it this way.

So two versions Windows RT and Windows 8 Pro the latter running windows stuff; office etc. I think it's interesting but we will so, no mention of price, battery life or ram. The RT version will be out when windows 8 comes out in Oct. and the Pro version 3 months after.

It's nice to see he competition but I bet they get sued over the mag attached keyboard, and I'm sure they were able to piss off all their manufacturing partners. It's kind of between an ipad and a laptop, i mean i doubt your could use that tablet and keyboard on your lap to type like a laptop.

Anyway all the micro-monkeyboys are all giddy and them and the fanboys keep throwing kool-aid at each other so should be a fun battle. I give it a year before MS dumps the whole concept.

[island911]

Originally Posted by foxpaws

You create on some slate - really - not on a Intuos5 or something similar - I only have 2048 levels of pressure, starting with one gram... But, I guess that Slate of yours is a better tool..

Right - I guess it must be amateur night there on the island ...

If you had a Cintiq 24Hd, then you could claim amateur night. But a Intuos5? pfft. You are drawing on pad, but looking at a different space (a screen.) ..and How portable are all of those devices? -- the comparison here is portable tablets - Windows vs iPaid.

Create when mobile: When I go to see customers (for product design stuff) I take a tablet which allows me to not only handle (spin/zoom)3D parts and assemblies, but also mark-up /sketch on existing models of in-work product. All the ipad is good for is flipping thru images. ..and the latest gen does have a beautiful screen for that. And I'll bet that Angry Birds is really smooth.

[island911]

Originally Posted by stealthn

...
It's nice to see he competition but I bet they get sued over the mag attached keyboard, and I'm sure they were able to piss off all their manufacturing partners. It's kind of between an ipad and a laptop, i mean i doubt your could use that tablet and keyboard on your lap to type like a laptop.....

I still don't know how Apple claims patent right on the magnet power cord. I mean, the idea was developed, way back, for portable electric fryers, iirc.

A design patent I could see, but utility? ...they do have deep lawyer pockets, I suppose.

[foxpaws]

Originally Posted by island911

If you had a Cintiq 24Hd, then you could claim amateur night. But a Intuos5? pfft. You are drawing on pad, but looking at a different space (a screen.) ..and How portable are all of those devices? -- the comparison here is portable tablets - Windows vs iPaid.

Create when mobile: When I go to see customers (for product design stuff) I take a tablet which allows me to not only handle (spin/zoom)3D parts and assemblies, but also mark-up /sketch on existing models of in-work product. All the ipad is good for is flipping thru images. ..and the latest gen does have a beautiful screen for that. And I'll bet that Angry Birds is really smooth.

Island - my clients easily mark up on the pdfs of their flyers/catalogs/ads on the iPad - there is no way I can have 50 layer 11x17 multiple photoshop files open on any tablet - it is hard enough on my older 17" macbook pro. And the iPad is great for previewing/marking up printed product, website captures, or video. You need real screen resolution to do that - and iPad is really the only tablet out there with close to print quality or HD resolution. And I would much rather draw on a pad - drawing on a screen is like drawing on a window - useless.

I don't play angry birds - I 'play' on our new Alienware... once again - I get the machine that fits the job. Computers really aren't 'one size fits all'.

I am sure your slate works great for your applications - but it isn't the best machine for what many people use tablets for, viewing content. And with how it looks like the Surface will be hitting the market (with 720p) it won't be a great interactive content machine - sort of an 'inbetween' that doesn't do anything 'great'. Apple has learned - do great with what the machine can best do. Do great with content if you produce a tablet, do great with communication if you do a phone, do great with interface if you have a laptop....

[island911]

So, it's all about resolution, to graphic gurus like yourself, eh?

fwiw, I looked up the Adobe color gamut for the iPad 3... knowing that my old Dell M6400 has 100% Adobe gamut (RGB LED edge to edge screen)

And the new and improve ipad 3 comes in at . . . . 66% . awhhh....

btw, I thought that graphic purists like yourself prioritized color depth and accuracy over pixel count. I guess not. Shiny and high pixel count FTW.

[island911]

Originally Posted by foxpaws

Island - my clients easily mark up on the pdfs of their flyers/catalogs/ads on the iPad - there is no way I can have 50 layer 11x17 multiple photoshop files open on any tablet - it is hard enough on my older 17" macbook pro. And the iPad is great for previewing/marking up printed product, website captures, or video. You need real screen resolution to do that - and iPad is really the only tablet out there with close to print quality or HD resolution. And I would much rather draw on a pad - drawing on a screen is like drawing on a window - useless.
...

uhmm ... so you have your clients marking up pdf's on your useless ipad window? ...is that your argument?

No offense, but you really do argue like a stereotypical woman.

[foxpaws]

Island - you always calibrate your screen (whatever kind) to print spec output - so, for example, sheetfed has a different color calibration than heat set web... And projected light can never exactly reproduce reflective light, you do the best you can. So, I calibrate the screen for media delivery-and go with the best resolution, for me, the iPad (running datacolor's spyder4) does the best job.

Again - tools for the job vary. Product design is a lot different than graphic design, and both have tools that work better for their specific needs.

And if my clients are reviewing on their own computers - well then all bets are off - who knows what sort of awful colors they are getting on their screens. Some people don't realize that all the skin tones they see on their computers, when compared to color corrected skin tones, look like green skinned aliens.

[island911]

Originally Posted by foxpaws

...
And if my clients are reviewing on their own computers - well then all bets are off - who knows what sort of awful colors they are getting on their screens. Some people don't realize that all the skin tones they see on their computers, when compared to color corrected skin tones, look like green skinned aliens.

green skinned aliens. ...well said.

[foxpaws]

Originally Posted by island911

uhmm ... so you have your clients marking up pdf's on your useless ipad window? ...is that your argument?

No offense, but you really do argue like a stereotypical woman.

Island - you have no idea of what I draw-or how I do it. Clients circle things on pdfs, mark them up with stickies, and indicate what they want me to correct - I go back and correct them on 'real' machines. There is no way I can get suspension details corrected on any tablet application, redraw a foot so it looks more foreshortened, or go into a file that is many, many gigs and change the background to look 'a little more purple, you know, like the stripe on my tie', and hope to do anything with it on a tablet.

And thank you for the stereotypical woman comment.

[island911]

Originally Posted by foxpaws

...

And thank you for the stereotypical woman comment.

Well, you are welcome; but really, you earned that one with that beautifully self-contradictory paragraph.

[island911]

Back on topic.

At least the Microsoft Surface tablet has a kickstand. That is one useful feature that went missing from so many tablet devices when Apple released their first iPad. Of course Apple does rely on the McDonalds "Coke & Fries" marketing model. ...pay bloated prices for the cover, the docking keyboard or kickstand, the stylus, the SD card reader, the HDMI out...

[foxpaws]

Island - I don't want a kickstand - wouldn't use one if it was there - just added weight, and a feature I don't need or want.

Plus - that is what the cardboard McDonald's fries container is for - the 'throw it in the trash' kickstand if you need it. Just balance the iPad on the fry sleeve (or maybe the Big Mac box) - and voila -

But really - there are probably hundreds of different kickstand/cover combos out there - why be stuck with the style that microsoft thinks you need, go instead with the one that works best for you and how you use the tablet. Use it mostly on planes and in bed at the hotel room - there probably is a 'best' kickstand for that... Toss it in your Hermes bag to show Uncle Island the photos of the polo pony you want - kickstand for that...

And once you start to add all that other stuff - what do you really have - a wanna be laptop, that can't do what a real laptop can do... so just get a laptop if you want keyboards, card readers, hdmi's. What will that surface weigh? I have seen estimates of almost 2 lbs, 13" Airs weigh in at about 3 lbs...

[island911]

Originally Posted by foxpaws

Island - I don't want a kickstand - wouldn't use one if it was there - just added weight, and a feature I don't need or want.

Plus - that is what the cardboard McDonald's fries container is for - the 'throw it in the trash' kickstand if you need it. Just balance the iPad on the fry sleeve (or maybe the Big Mac box) - and voila -

Yeah, that wont work. The ipad and prop will slide in just about every circumstance.

Originally Posted by foxpaws

Island - I don't want a kickstand - wouldn't use one if it was there - just added weight, and a feature I don't need or want.
...
But really - there are probably hundreds of different kickstand/cover combos out there - why be stuck with the style that microsoft thinks you need, ....

There's that womanly touch again. ..."It's not an important feature, that's why so many are available as after-thoughts for the ipad"

Originally Posted by foxpaws

.
And once you start to add all that other stuff - what do you really have - a wanna be laptop, that can't do what a real laptop can do... so just get a laptop if you want keyboards, card readers, hdmi's.

Yeah, it's amazing that Apple offers all those barnacles for their glorious ipad. ...stoopid people just don't understand the genius of the limited ipad.

[foxpaws]

Originally Posted by island911

Yeah, that wont work. The ipad and prop will slide in just about every circumstance.

Wow - a little salt - the stuff works great...

There's that womanly touch again. ..."It's not an important feature, that's why so many are available as after-thoughts for the ipad"

I bought a cover for my nook (pre-iPad) - with a 'kickstand' because I thought I would like it - it was awful, I dumped it quickly - an option not available with the new surface, you will be stuck with the kickstand - like it or not. And when it breaks (look at it - it is going to break - wow - right away), or if you want to get a real cover for your surface - it is going to cover up the kickstand - making it unusable anyway. Microsoft tries to be all things to all people - they just don't get it.

Yeah, it's amazing that Apple offers all those barnacles for their glorious ipad. ...stoopid people just don't understand the genius of the limited ipad.

Less is more-believe me. I don't want all that stuff - many people don't - so don't give it to me. I don't want the weight, the cost, the 'whoops, I guess I never used that' scenario.

So - you don't forget - it feels like Zune all over - too much, yet, in reality, too little, and way too late. Plus, a marketing department that fails all the time....

edit - out of curiosity have you run a Transformer Prime? I liked the one that was lent to me for a couple of weeks - seemed like a good machine.

[island911]

Originally Posted by foxpaws

...
Less is more-believe me. I don't want all that stuff - many people don't - so don't give it to me. I don't want the weight, the cost, the 'whoops, I guess I never used that' scenario.

So - you don't forget - it feels like Zune all over - too much, yet, in reality, too little, and way too late. Plus, a marketing department that fails all the time....

edit - out of curiosity have you run a Transformer Prime? I liked the one that was lent to me for a couple of weeks - seemed like a good machine.

Asus Transformer Prime? No. that falls in to the "toy' category, IMO - Android, glossy screen, cap-sense....

the weight, the cost? ... you mean like the heavy aluminum /glass construction of the iPad. Well, at least those options are expensive.