Do modern airline pilots suck?

[speeder]

I've flown quite a few times this year, including two Southwest flights today, and most of the landings were rough to put it mildly. The two today felt almost like crash-landings, they were so bad.

I've been flying commercial for 40 years at least and never remember any landings like these. I mean, come on...these new planes basically fly themselves, right? All the pilots have to do is take-off and land, plus monitor some screens and push some buttons in the air. These landings lately all felt like they came in way too hot, almost over-shot the runway. It seems like they had a hard time getting the nose down in time and had to hit the brakes so hard that everyone's ear drums almost broke. Just horrible landings.

I have lots of good memories of airline pilots landing jets so smoothly that the passengers applauded, especially in bad weather. The recent flights I'm talking about were all in perfect weather.

Just venting, obviously I'm alive and well but the skill just doesn't seem to be there anymore. Anyone else notice this?

[Dottore]

I think I've noticed a direct correlation between the business of an airport and the quality of the landings. Places like O'Hare, Heathrow, Frankfurt the landings always seem to be hard. Maybe because the pilot just has a small window in which to put the plane down.

OTOH if you are the only plane on approach and have all the time in the world to line things up...things are generally smooth.

Purely anecdotal...but that's my impression.

[rouxroux]

Man, Theere is a joke here!

[red-beard]

Must-resist-typing-about-banned-user...

[pavulon]

Originally Posted by Dottore

Maybe because the pilot just has a small window in which to put the plane down.

OTOH if you are the only plane on approach and have all the time in the world to line things up...things are generally smooth.

Purely anecdotal...but that's my impression.

I can't argue with your experiences but unless your flight goes directly from banking to flaring for touchdown, there should be time to get it "right." I would imagine that big airports have more turbulence from other aircraft and summer tends to make for more turbulence too. I'd also think that there are pressures to get the plane off the runway ASAP so that might contribute to flying it onto the ground with a higher airspeed followed by mad braking as opposed to letting the plane settle onto the ground at somewhat lower airspeed (I can't imagine that stalling a big plane is encouraged but don't know). It is also possible that pilot quality really has begun to erode as entry level pilots can require a long span of really bad pay, hours and working conditions to work their way up to a living wage and hours. Talented and bright folks may not want to do that anymore.

[cashflyer]

For years the aviation mags have been telling me that the experience base is shrinking in commercial aviation.

[Shuie]

Could it be the approach they have to take for that airport? Maybe just random luck. I fly 2-4 segments just about every week w/work. Mostly on small CRJs, A319s, and some of the bigger Boeing 767s, 757s, and 777s on international flights. I haven't experienced a memorable landing in a long time. It's been several years since I was assigned to a project that put me through Chicago Midway on a 737 with SWA every week. I still remember every one of those landings.

[Superman]

My take: Airplanes are tough. Landings are dangerous. Slow, soft, delicate landings are perhaps comfortable, but if a pilot wants to ensure a successful landing, he will dispense with the aesthetics and PRESS that plane against the ground somewhat quickly and hold it there.

I am not a pilot and do not play one on TV, but I did get some pretty good rest last night.

[romad]

Most pilots do sux , that is the ones that didn't graduate from Western Michigan University.

[Joeaksa]

The experience level in the left seat so far is still fairly good but difficult times are coming.

About 10-15 years ago all this "lets hire minorities" crap came into effect. United (the worst), Delta and so on jumped on the band-wagon and if you were female or any minority and could identify an airplane on the ramp, you were hired. All of those guys with 2-10,000 hours already under their belt who also applied for a job were told to go away that their years of experience were not needed.

Well kids, these "new hires" have little if any "time in command" in the left seat of a transport catagory airplane and its about time for them to "assume the left seat" due to their senority numbers. When this happens (its prolly started happening already) the airlines are really going to have their hands full as now they get to find a whole bunch of really experienced copilots to "baby-sit" these new Captains who have never been in charge of an airplane, especially a big one full of 200 passengers.

Flying through bad or difficult weather, winter weather ops and so on are going to get worse with these "newly minted Captains" sitting in the left seat and in control of your life during the flight.

Personally I try to fly on SouthWest or American as they are the two that I know of who did not jump on the "lets hire minorities" bandwagon as strongly as the other airlines.

[oldschoollear]

I swear. I could take off with 400 rvr, circumnavigate, a line of 50k ft storms, dodge Surface to air missiles, hand fly an approach to minimums on one engine with a hydraulic failure, all without the first hint of turbulence, but if the landing sucks the entire profession is going to hell in a hand basket ! I can't speak to anyone else's experience, but I've spent the last 4000hrs flying numerous planes that do anything but "fly themselves". Navajos, mu-2, Lear 20,30 etc. with nothing more than basic 6 pack instrumentation and a basic gps (if I was lucky). It wasn't until a year ago that I began flying a modern aircraft with "glass" instruments. If a guy is sitting in the front seat of a southwest flight, chances are he/she probably has a clue. Not venting, just hope I can share a little perspective.

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by Superman

My take: Airplanes are tough. Landings are dangerous. Slow, soft, delicate landings are perhaps comfortable, but if a pilot wants to ensure a successful landing, he will dispense with the aesthetics and PRESS that plane against the ground somewhat quickly and hold it there.

I am not a pilot and do not play one on TV, but I did get some pretty good rest last night.

Sorry but your take is not correct except in one instance. There is no reason why a good pilot cannot most of the time do a landing that is smooth and one where you barely feel the plane touch the runway.

In conditions where the runway is slick, like snow, ice or lots of rain, then yes you do need to fairly firmly plant the gear on the runway to make sure that the main tires do start to spin up and not just slide on top of the water/snow/ice.

Lastly, a pilot does not "PRESS" anything against the runway. You have a controlled rate of descent (usually about 700 feet per minute) during the approach, and you continue that until in "ground effect" where that slows down a bit but gravity continues taking the airplane down to where it touches the runway and you have arrived.

[Lothar]

I've been flying more lately. I've had quite a few flights of late where I was tempted to say something to the pilot about what a soft landing he executed. Maybe the rough ones are as isolated and random as my soft ones.

I've been on Delta, American, AirTran and Southwest over the past few months.

[recycled sixtie]

They say any landing you can walk away from is a good landing!

[Seahawk]

My favorite hard landing joke, an oldie but a goodie:

After a particularly hard landing, an older woman commented to the pilot as she was deplaning, "Young man, it was hard to tell if we were landing or had been shot down..."

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by oldschoollear

I swear. I could take off with 400 rvr, circumnavigate, a line of 50k ft storms, dodge Surface to air missiles, hand fly an approach to minimums on one engine with a hydraulic failure, all without the first hint of turbulence, but if the landing sucks the entire profession is going to hell in a hand basket ! I can't speak to anyone else's experience, but I've spent the last 4000hrs flying numerous planes that do anything but "fly themselves". Navajos, mu-2, Lear 20,30 etc. with nothing more than basic 6 pack instrumentation and a basic gps (if I was lucky). It wasn't until a year ago that I began flying a modern aircraft with "glass" instruments. If a guy is sitting in the front seat of a southwest flight, chances are he/she probably has a clue. Not venting, just hope I can share a little perspective.

Xbox or PS3?

[oldschoollear]

Games are for kids. I run a virtual airline.

Quote de oldschoollear

I swear. I could take off with 400 rvr, circumnavigate, a line of 50k ft storms, dodge Surface to air missiles, hand fly an approach to minimums on one engine with a hydraulic failure, all without the first hint of turbulence, but if the landing sucks the entire profession is going to hell in a hand basket ! I can't speak to anyone else's experience, but I've spent the last 4000hrs flying numerous planes that do anything but "fly themselves". Navajos, mu-2, Lear 20,30 etc. with nothing more than basic 6 pack instrumentation and a basic gps (if I was lucky). It wasn't until a year ago that I began flying a modern aircraft with "glass" instruments. If a guy is sitting in the front seat of a southwest flight, chances are he/she probably has a clue. Not venting, just hope I can share a little perspective.

Xbox or PS3?

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by oldschoollear

Games are for kids. I run a virtual airline.

Hey, that could be a new game from Zynga/Facebook!

[scottmandue]

My experience is only commuting from LAX or LGB to PDX on Alaska or JetBlue...

The landing seems a little bouncy... but I always figured it was just the newer/smaller planes (737 on Alaska or same size Airbus with JetBlue)

But WTF is it with the seatbelt sign? Do some pilots just forget to turn it off once we get to altitude and everything is flat and smooth? Don't they know some of us tanked up on $8 beers before boarding?

[cashflyer]

Originally Posted by oldschoollear

.I've spent the last 4000hrs flying numerous planes that do anything but "fly themselves".
Navajos, mu-2, Lear 20,30 etc. with nothing more than basic 6 pack instrumentation and a basic gps (if I was lucky).

No autopilot in your Mitsu or Lears?