The demise of shop classes

[gshase]

Today I am in the process of putting in my paper work to retire as a shop teacher. In my 26 years, I know so many students that stayed in school to take my classes and put up with English and Math and graduated. I have several former students that attended Wyo Tech and enjoyed it. Wyo Tech is for profit and I feel the kids have a better chance of success from a public school like TSTC in Waco Texas or a JR college. The public school administration does not support trade classes and wants every student to go to a 4 year college.

[Instrument 41]

Here locally there are a number of high schools that have great vocational programs. I have a nephew that started welding classes in the 10th grade. By the time he graduated he had a number of certifications and his first job , out of high school, he was making $28 per hour. There is also a magnet program that has an auto body repair program. Thye are out there, guess it depends on your region. We have a huge demand for skilled blue collar workers...that can pass a drug screen.

[Phares]

Originally Posted by Head416

This book has been brought up on PPOT before, I enjoyed it: Shop Class as Soulcraft: An Inquiry into the Value of Work

I really enjoyed this book. I was going to link it but you beat me to it!

[RWebb]

partly, in a throw-away society there is little "need" to fix things - it costs too much and is cheaper to get a new one (which is usually significantly advance if it has any electronics at all in it) made by robots or cheap "bowl of rice a day is a significant improvement in lifestyle" type labor

partly, for HS, the students are in such bad shape that they need 4 years of readin, writin and 'rithmatic just to get to the level of a 9th grader from 30 years ago

[Scott Watkins]

I thought mine were great! In Jr high, we designed and would draw/draft all projects we built. High school metal shop was awesome! Built my own skateboard ramp. Then moved onto vocational drafting. My mom wouldn't allow me to go in auto shop, which is what I wanted to do.

I would like to see more dad's teaching their children basic mechanical aptitude through building and fixing things. The number of young folks I work with, interview, and meet, while quite intelligent, most can't change a flat tire on their own car.

[Head416]

Originally Posted by Scott Watkins

...I would like to see more dad's teaching their children basic mechanical aptitude through building and fixing things...

Absolutely! It would be nice to have it in schools. But, absent that, parents need to step in and get the job done. Also, taking care of the kids they know that don't have dads to teach them.

[skunked]

Originally Posted by Scott Watkins

I would like to see more dad's teaching their children basic mechanical aptitude through building and fixing things. The number of young folks I work with, interview, and meet, while quite intelligent, most can't change a flat tire on their own car.

Absolutely.

Just yesterday I was showing my 5 year old daughter how to install drip system.

I can't imagine the HS years without shop, easily my favorite class during my middle school & HS years.

[asphaltgambler]

While there is nothing wrong with learning a 'hands-on' skill in high school; it doesn't translate into a solid career in todays global economy. There are people all over the world immigrating into the US to take advantage of some of the best higher education available. Why? Because those people outside the US are MORE motivated to better themselves and they know higher education is the key.

Like it or not, young people need college in todays world. Where in the past a skilled blue-collar person could achieve the American dream and could sometimes choose between college OR skilled labor training. We need need to impress upon our kids at the youngest of age that college is NOT an elective choice, but the logical next step. College may not be for everyone but the gap in earnings, benefits and a real future ever widens.

Recently, I had spoken with an HR person along these lines and she stated that people WITH a BS in a field related to any position that was being advertised got first shot, even for lower to mid-level opportunities. That where firms use software screening for applicants, if enough % had degrees the ones with-out never made it any further.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by asphaltgambler

While there is nothing wrong with learning a 'hands-on' skill in high school; it doesn't translate into a solid career in todays global economy. There are people all over the world immigrating into the US to take advantage of some of the best higher education available. Why? Because those people outside the US are MORE motivated to better themselves and they know higher education is the key.

Like it or not, young people need college in todays world. Where in the past a skilled blue-collar person could achieve the American dream and could sometimes choose between college OR skilled labor training. We need need to impress upon our kids at the youngest of age that college is NOT an elective choice, but the logical next step. College may not be for everyone but the gap in earnings, benefits and a real future ever widens.

Recently, I had spoken with an HR person along these lines and she stated that people WITH a BS in a field related to any position that was being advertised got first shot, even for lower to mid-level opportunities. That where firms use software screening for applicants, if enough % had degrees the ones with-out never made it any further.

In a world where everyone has a BS, how do you stand out? More importantly, who does your college grad call when his toilet leaks or his lights flicker? I know a number of people with degrees that are just scraping by because the opportunities provided by their garden-variety major are poor. I know a number of people without college degrees that are making excellent money.

I do almost everything myself, but I do contract out my HVAC work because I don't have the specialized training, tools, and license. The HVAC guy that I hire for general maintenance stuff like charging an A/C unit charges $90/hr, which is pretty cheap for Wichita. He is self employed and has a early 2000s Ford Econoline and tools for overhead, I'd guess $10k or less investment. He is busy as hell, so let's do a little math. Conservatively assuming 40 hrs per week, 50 weeks per year (I'll give him a vacation) his gross income is about $180,000 (90 x 40 x 50). Obviously he has a small amount of cost associated with his business and personal insurance, licensing fees, etc but that's money that this college grad would be pretty happy with. Obviously I'm using the example of a self-employed tradesman, but it's REALLY easy to be self employed in a skilled trade (comparatively speaking).

This argument is funny, because I actually left the field of remodeling to get an engineering degree and am currently working on my MBA. I left because I decided that swinging a hammer just wasn't for me, but I do still believe in the potential that a skilled trades job represents. I have a lot of respect for blue collar work and it makes me sick that it doesn't earn more respect in our modern society. In ten years if my now eight year old son comes to me with a plan to attend a technical school and become some sort of skilled and licensed tradesman, I will support and respect his decision.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Scott Watkins

I would like to see more dad's teaching their children basic mechanical aptitude through building and fixing things. The number of young folks I work with, interview, and meet, while quite intelligent, most can't change a flat tire on their own car.

Mom's, too. My wife has much better practical skills than I do when it comes to hanging doors, wood stuff. She is good at it, thank god.

I do all the mechanical stuff and then the, strong back, weak mind fixes. Both my children know how to "do" stuff mainly because they had to. My son is very good at mechanical things as well since we have fixed and maintained the vehicles on the farm in tandem for many years.

Before I let my daughter drive solo, she had to change a tire on her car, really change it: get the jack, spare, etc.

She also had to name the fluids and the fluid containers all around her car: If you make it a challenge they get it.

[intakexhaust]

Have you thanked a lawyer lately? Sorry to say, thats what killed the programs.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by intakexhaust

Have you thanked a lawyer lately? Sorry to say, thats what killed the programs.

Please explain. Are you intimating liability issues?

S

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by asphaltgambler

While there is nothing wrong with learning a 'hands-on' skill in high school; it doesn't translate into a solid career in todays global economy. There are people all over the world immigrating into the US to take advantage of some of the best higher education available. Why? Because those people outside the US are MORE motivated to better themselves and they know higher education is the key.

Like it or not, young people need college in todays world. Where in the past a skilled blue-collar person could achieve the American dream and could sometimes choose between college OR skilled labor training. We need need to impress upon our kids at the youngest of age that college is NOT an elective choice, but the logical next step. College may not be for everyone but the gap in earnings, benefits and a real future ever widens.

Recently, I had spoken with an HR person along these lines and she stated that people WITH a BS in a field related to any position that was being advertised got first shot, even for lower to mid-level opportunities. That where firms use software screening for applicants, if enough % had degrees the ones with-out never made it any further.

Agree that some college is necessary for the reason implied about the equivalent of 9th grade 30 years ago comment.

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

In a world where everyone has a BS, how do you stand out? More importantly, who does your college grad call when his toilet leaks or his lights flicker? I know a number of people with degrees that are just scraping by because the opportunities provided by their garden-variety major are poor. I know a number of people without college degrees that are making excellent money.

I do almost everything myself, but I do contract out my HVAC work because I don't have the specialized training, tools, and license. The HVAC guy that I hire for general maintenance stuff like charging an A/C unit charges $90/hr, which is pretty cheap for Wichita. He is self employed and has a early 2000s Ford Econoline and tools for overhead, I'd guess $10k or less investment. He is busy as hell, so let's do a little math. Conservatively assuming 40 hrs per week, 50 weeks per year (I'll give him a vacation) his gross income is about $180,000 (90 x 40 x 50). Obviously he has a small amount of cost associated with his business and personal insurance, licensing fees, etc but that's money that this college grad would be pretty happy with. Obviously I'm using the example of a self-employed tradesman, but it's REALLY easy to be self employed in a skilled trade (comparatively speaking).

This argument is funny, because I actually left the field of remodeling to get an engineering degree and am currently working on my MBA. I left because I decided that swinging a hammer just wasn't for me, but I do still believe in the potential that a skilled trades job represents. I have a lot of respect for blue collar work and it makes me sick that it doesn't earn more respect in our modern society. In ten years if my now eight year old son comes to me with a plan to attend a technical school and become some sort of skilled and licensed tradesman, I will support and respect his decision.

You were fortunate to have the remodeling experience before going into engineering. How might we impart some practical training for all students. Didn't they once require girls to take a "homemaking" class? That should be co-ed.

Originally Posted by 911pcars

Please explain. Are you intimating liability issues?

S

Probably. That was my position.

[911pcars]

Liability? As in - science lab is less hazardous than a home econ., drafting or electronics class? No. It is a factor wherever there is any potential, but in my limited experience in formal education, I don't agree with that as a main reason.

Wouldn't potential liability suits also curtail technical training in higher education as well as in private enterprise? With adequate training, potential hazards are mitigated, especially in a training situation. There's always potential for liability, no matter what level of technology, science or the activities of college football coaches in shower rooms.

S

[tocobill]

There was an article in Car and Driver last year talking about this too. Many schools don't offer VOTECH classes anymore as many deem them dirty jobs or they just don't have the funding anymore because of cutbacks or putting all the funding into national testing .... many times forcing a square peg into a round hole. Not everyone is smart enough or wants to go to college. We will always need blue collar workers as well as white collar workers. Its the ying to the yang. It does bother me that people want to bash VOTECH or other non college route careers. Especially when these same people cant change their own oil, cook their own food, nor bang a nail with a hammer with out direction. They are dependent on the hand that feeds.

I always look forward to the yearly Pop Mech issue of the 100 things every man should know how to do. Some people might be surprised by the list.

[azasadny]

My neighbor is an excellent high school metal shop teacher. He's extremely dedicated and great with kids. I'm glad we have some of these folks left!

[scottmandue]

On a related note... my wife laments the loss of home ecc classes... she taught her daughter how to sew and cook... but how many kids (boys and girls) go off to college without these basic skills? Doomed to live off fast food and disposable clothing.

[mjohnson]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

On a related note... my wife laments the loss of home ecc classes... she taught her daughter how to sew and cook... but how many kids (boys and girls) go off to college without these basic skills? Doomed to live off fast food and disposable clothing.

I blew so many minds in grad school with "how to roast a chicken" parties. Bring a chicken and a bottle of wine and you can learn that it's stupid easy! If I weren't engaged we could have had more than a few "how to make chicken stock after breakfast" after-parties. Heh heh heh

Cooking is so essential but is so exotic to too many...

(I had to take Home-ec in middle school and we never cooked a chicken. Made apple fritters and a quilt but never somehow hemmed trousers. Useless.)

[tabs]

There really isn't much to say that hasn't already been said here. It is a good idea that some place in K-12 that every child gets some exposure to Home Econ, Shop Classes AND BUSINESS Classes so that they know how to balance a checkbook and or write a letter. These type of classes round out an indivdual, provide some experience and are as important life skills as the readin, writin and rithmatic.

Everybody in America can get a College education and have the GOOD LIFE so everybody has to try.... Americans are just not the same generation of people that practiced self reliance, responsibility and knew their limitations. One is a believer in education as in you can never have too much and in reality it is a life long process.

The true failure of the American education system is that the US has industrialized the education process , trying to turn out uniform Units in which all the Units have passed a quality control test. .It will not be until we understand that we are teaching INDIVDUALs who each have a UNIQUE POTENTIAL and not a HERD of all alike Units that we can truly start to educate our young. Some place along the line we have forgotten about peoples indivduality, by trading in our name for a number in society.

[RWebb]

I was talking to a kid just yesterday who is going to get some personalized education - he is going to Swarthmore.

It it expensive. You get the education you pay for - start a war on teachers, cut their salaries & benefits, make them teach idiotism (creationism) & they quit. Who wins that war?