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campbellcj 06-24-2012 10:01 AM

I know most of you guys are realists and skeptics with regard to electric vehicles, as am I. However, IMHO companies like Tesla are building mindshare around the energy dilemma as well as pushing battery capacity, longevity and charging technologies forward, and those are good things. Plus, not every plug-in vehicle needs to be powered by burning of coal or natural gas; for example, my brother has a Leaf that he charges via solar at home. Today this is more a decision of conscience than economics but without early adopters we would be nowhere technologically today.

tabs 06-24-2012 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superman (Post 6820667)
I have a COMPLETELY different view, Island. The part we agree on is that battery technology is nowhere near a position to be a viable competitor to fossil fuels. And that's where we stop agreeing.

I laud efforts, even expensive ones, to find technological breakthroughs that will revolutionize industries as expensive and important as Energy. Yes, it takes massive investment. I applaud rather than whine. And I believe that electric cars will, eventually, replace internal combustion. The things you say about electric cars.....are similar to what many folks said about aviation, space flight, etc. Columbus received similar criticism.

I hope that when (not if) the breakthroughs are achieved, the heroes are Americans.

After this I am considering another downgrade of Liberal mental acuity..from stupid to moron...

tabs 06-24-2012 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by campbellcj (Post 6820687)
I know most of you guys are realists and skeptics with regard to electric vehicles, as am I. However, IMHO companies like Tesla are building mindshare around the energy dilemma as well as pushing battery capacity, longevity and charging technologies forward, and those are good things. Plus, not every plug-in vehicle needs to be powered by burning of coal or natural gas; for example, my brother has a Leaf that he charges via solar at home. Today this is more a decision of conscience than economics but without early adopters we would be nowhere technologically today.

Why not just put the Solar panel on the roof of the car?

island911 06-24-2012 10:09 AM

point, tabs. (re Liberals) :cool: so then let me dumb this down with a car analogy...

The 911 Singer has ALL SORTS of appeal to a certain segment ... but don't go claiming that it is thee solution to faster track times.. Just like the Singer appeals to peoples idea of what is right, so to does the Tesla. The buyers want to have something for their own private Idaho.

Too bad Singer didn't get half a billion in tax dollars directed to them. I mean, if I could get one of those for 60k w/ no sales tax... 300 k is just too much.

get it now, well meaning lib's?

island911 06-24-2012 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superman (Post 6820667)
I have a COMPLETELY different view, Island. The part we agree on is that battery technology is nowhere near a position to be a viable competitor to fossil fuels. And that's where we stop agreeing.

I laud efforts, even expensive ones, to find technological breakthroughs that will revolutionize industries as expensive and important as Energy. Yes, it takes massive investment. I applaud rather than whine. And I believe that electric cars will, eventually, replace internal combustion. The things you say about electric cars.....are similar to what many folks said about aviation, space flight, etc. Columbus received similar criticism.

I hope that when (not if) the breakthroughs are achieved, the heroes are Americans.

"to find technological breakthroughs that will revolutionize industries" . . .C'mon.

What is Revolutionary about this electric car? ...that it has four doors?

kaisen 06-24-2012 10:14 AM

Because Singer isn't developing new technologies or creating significant job growth

island911 06-24-2012 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaisen (Post 6820719)
Because Singer isn't developing new technologies or creating significant job growth

Give 'em half a Billion ...

btw, what new tech has Tesla created?

island911 06-24-2012 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabs (Post 6820693)
Why not just put the Solar panel on the roof of the car?

Fisker did this to good end.

That is, with a big solar panel on the roof buyers will accept that they are not going to get a sunroof/moonroof ...which would add to the needed AC load....which would drain the limited battery power available. Also note the tiny windows on that car. Smart to design a dark cave.

iirc we funneled half a Billion to Fisker too. ..where are they built?

tabs 06-24-2012 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaisen (Post 6820719)
Because Singer isn't developing new technologies or creating significant job growth

Do U want to try a Downgrade of Liberal mental acuity from Moron to Idiot?

The Electric car has been around for 100 years or more....The US, Germany, Japan and English have put considerable efforts into Battery tech. You see untill the advent of the Nuck Subramarine in the mid 50's, when Subs ran submerged they ran on Batteries and as such had to come up for air to run the Diesels to recharge the Batteries..(The Snorkel was only invented towards the end of WW2).

When discussing the type of energy source to power just about anything, you have to look at what is practical and or cost effective. One thinks that they are barking up the worng tree when looking at Electric as a single energy source vehicle. Hybrids have proven to be successfull as they were in the Submarines of yester year.

That why this whole conversation seems so inane and a total waste of time.

island911 06-24-2012 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superman (Post 6820667)
...

I laud efforts, even expensive ones, to find technological breakthroughs that will revolutionize industries as expensive and important as Energy. Yes, it takes massive investment. I applaud rather than whine. ...

So you think that spending Billions on taking known (lacking) energy density batteries and stuffing them in an expensive materials car is an effort to find technological breakthroughs?

Or do you just really feel good to paint others as whiners for not encouraging the expensive repackaging of the same-old same-old tech? You think that you are helping by having HOPE that if we throw lots of money at putting nothing new on four wheels that it will improve battery tech. You're not - it won't. You are simply being delusional.

IOW, tabs is spot on.

tabs 06-24-2012 10:48 AM

The Tesala Toaster Oven is a NOVELTY...like the Bearded Lady at the Carnival Side Show...

island911 06-24-2012 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabs (Post 6820755)
...

That why this whole conversation seems so inane and a total waste of time.

Sometimes it is helpful to grab idiots by the collar, shake them while saying; NOooo... Stop being an Idiot. This is NOT what you want it to be, or what you FEEL it must be.

They still go thru life a bit slow, but at least they know that they can't go around regurgitating That particular Stoopid crap.

But, yes, it gets old.

kaisen 06-24-2012 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by island911 (Post 6820723)
Give 'em half a Billion ...

btw, what new tech has Tesla created?

Nobody is GIVING Tesla a half-billion dollars, they're in the form of LOANS from the Dept of Energy

A small glimpse at Tesla's technology contributions:
TESLA MOTORS, INC. - Patent applications

kaisen 06-24-2012 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabs (Post 6820755)
Do U want to try a Downgrade of Liberal mental acuity from Moron to Idiot?

The Electric car has been around for 100 years or more.....

I don't assign myself to any political ideology, so I take offense to your label and name calling. Seriously

Gasoline and Diesel powered cars have been around for 100 years or more as well. But they keep getting better all the time, motivated by governmental carrots and legislative sticks. What makes you think it works differently?

island911 06-24-2012 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaisen (Post 6820776)
Nobody is GIVING Tesla a half-billion dollars, they're in the form of LOANS from the Dept of Energy

Oh, you mean like the half a billion in guaranteed loans that Solyndra (or any of the other green tech companies now red) took?

island911 06-24-2012 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaisen (Post 6820784)
. What makes you think it works differently?

Physics.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ensity.svg.png

kaisen 06-24-2012 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by island911 (Post 6820786)
Oh, you mean like the half a billion in guaranteed loans that Solyndra (or any of the other green tech companies now red) took?

Yes. A loan is not a gift or grant. They were not 'GIVEN' any money. The money is a loan only to be used in very specific ways as spelled out in their agreement, and that they are obligated to repay.

Failures of other borrowers and creditors are easy to find in both the public and private sectors.

Superman 06-24-2012 11:05 AM

They warned Columbus that his ships would fall off the edge of the world.

Yesterday I heard another person try to appear knowledgeable by sneering at Paul McCartney's (allegedly) inferior musical skills.

Criticism rarely impresses me. There will always be those who lay back in the grass and shoot at whatever others are trying to fly. Progress is always made by those who ignore the shooters.

Joe Bob 06-24-2012 11:07 AM

Tesla is is owned primarily by Elon Musk who is also is the HNIC at Space X and Solar City. Former PayPal guy.

He has deep pockets and a rep for backing winners.

South African emigrant that is doing well....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk

kaisen 06-24-2012 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by island911 (Post 6820790)
Physics.

Exactly.

And exactly like gasoline and diesel powered internal combustion engines have advanced over the last 100 years to more efficiently extract that POTENTIAL energy, advancements in battery storage, charging systems, motors, reductors, etc, etc will make electrics more efficient as well.

No energy conversion is 100% efficent. There's potential for improvement in all of them, and I'm sure there are companies all over the world that are working on them. Not just fossil fuels. Not just electric. Not just biofuels. Not just nuclear. Not just wind. ETC, ETC.


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