I don't get it....

[recycled sixtie]

with these Porsche stealerships. Our local P dealership it seems that they hardly sell any cars, the cars are way overpriced(incl. used) and servicing runs about $150/hr. I went to buy a serpentine belt for my Boxster and just for curiosity I asked how much to install the belt. They quoted an hour and a half of labor. So that is close to $250 with tax. Wayne's 101 Projects for your Boxster book states one hour. Edmonton has a population of about 1 million. If they did not make a profit, then they would not be in business. But they are but I don't understand the economics of it. Could somebody in the business enlighten me? The indy shop is virtually the same. I am sure it would pay for me to have major work done down say in California in the middle of winter and stay at a Best Western for a few days holiday while the work is done. At least your prices are more reasonable. Probably have to pay duty on the way back for the work done. Do you think P dealerships make a ton of $$$$?Please enlighten me!

[Oh Haha]

Dealerships/repair shops in general are there for the people that don't have the ability or want to work on their own cars.

I hear stories from people all of the time about how much this or that repair cost them recently.

Our vehicles are maintained by me except for tire mounting/balancing and alignments.

It's a service and some people are willing to pay for it no matter the price.

[Scott R]

Mine has a plaque that says "million dollar sales level" and it shows them getting that award most of the last ten years. I don't really think about the charges very often, they are convenient and do an excellent job.

[TimT]

Wayne's 101 Projects for your Boxster book states one hour.

Sorry but whatever he says will not override what services like Alldata say certain time per repair take.. that is book... and you get charged that

If they beat the book hours... they make money.... if there are problems or the tech doesn't have chops they lose money..

This next sentence is hard to construct...the owner of the site we all post on and exchange information on is not (does not), Influence the data shop owners use to bill time for repairs....

I.E. Alldata does not tell shop owners how many hour to charge based on the owner of this websites claims..

[szyzygy]

Originally Posted by TimT

Sorry but whatever he says will not override what services like Alldata say certain time per repair take.. that is book... and you get charged that

If they beat the book hours... they make money.... if there are problems or the tech doesn't have chops they lose money..

This next sentence is hard to construct...the owner of the site we all post on and exchange information on is not (does not), Influence the data shop owners use to bill time for repairs....

I.E. Alldata does not tell shop owners how many hour to charge based on the owner of this websites claims..

so everyone in the industry uses this....they all report data and this company compiles it. what incentive do they have to ever try to best the estimate? It's in their best interest to jack up the time required to do jobs. That way, the expected amount of time to do jobs always increases.

I don't necessarily dislike unions, but this smells like that same kinda bulls*t

[TimT]

I don't necessarily dislike unions, but this smells like that same kinda bulls*t

What union? Thats a friggin leap....Many independent shops use service like this...The dealers have there own factory hours/repair manuals...

what incentive do they have to ever try to best the estimate?

Duh...

Industry book says you can charge 2 hour/ job... do the job in one hour you make money.... do the job in four hours...

its not that hard

[szyzygy]

Originally Posted by TimT

What union? Thats a friggin leap....Many independent shops use service like this...The dealers have there own factory hours/repair manuals...



Duh...

Industry book says you can charge 2 hour/ job... do the job in one hour you make money.... do the job in four hours...

its not that hard

Yeah, so why should anyone trust this book then? Everyone should just assume that the reported amount of time in the book is pure crap.

[szyzygy]

Everyone should just slow down how fast they are able to do **** so they can get away with doing less ****.

This is not very ethical. Imagine if doctors did this. Why do some people feel like they can get away with not performing at their best?

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by szyzygy

Everyone should just slow down how fast they are able to do **** so they can get away with doing less ****.

This is not very ethical. Imagine if doctors did this. Why do some people feel like they can get away with not performing at their best?

Speaking from experience, more often than not the book wins. For instance getting paid 4/10's of an hour to track down and repair an electrical issue. Or your changing a water pump and one of the bolts snaps off. It's probably more normal to work 12 hours to get an eight hour book. Unless of course you give the dispatcher and service writers a bottle of VO at the end of the week.

[theFONZ]

If a mechanic finishes a "2hr" job in 1 1/2 hours or 3 hours, he still gets paid for 2 hours. If it takes him less time, he makes more money because he can start the next one early. So the incentive is not to meet book time but to beat it. After experience, and as new tools and techniques are invented, the estimated time is lowered (or raised if the job sucks more). The time the book says is from your car pulling in to out and all tools/equipment is cleaned and stored, not the time it takes to change the part.

It's not a perfect system by any means, but it's the one most use. If you don't like/trust that system, work on your own car.

[szyzygy]

Originally Posted by theFONZ

If a mechanic finishes a "2hr" job in 1 1/2 hours or 3 hours, he still gets paid for 2 hours. If it takes him less time, he makes more money because he can start the next one early. So the incentive is not to meet book time but to beat it. After experience, and as new tools and techniques are invented, the estimated time is lowered (or raised if the job sucks more). The time the book says is from your car pulling in to out and all tools/equipment is cleaned and stored, not the time it takes to change the part.

It's not a perfect system by any means, but it's the one most use. If you don't like/trust that system, work on your own car.

I always thought I got charged whatever time the mech actually worked.

Just saying this system lends itself to abuse/padding.

Nothing against mechs, all professions tend to do this whenever they can get away with it. Human nature I guess. I strive to overcome this everyday.

And this is why I attempt to work on my own car, with the help of those on this board.

[mikeesik]

Rec. 60- as long as Guenter is there along with Randy Mayagashima, there will be little change.

This is oil-country -don't you know!

Everyone- COULD be the CLAMPETS!

And everything here it reflects upon it. It's like the Gold Rush.
Real Estate is + 300% in the last 15 years.
This is EDMONTON ( what a dumb name). I can't stand this boring town. So cheezeball in the -City Of Champions - B.S.-and you pay more to live here than Palm Springs.
That was over 2 decades ago! They can't let it go and it's embarrassing.

[recycled sixtie]

Originally Posted by mikeesik

Rec. 60- as long as Guenter is there along with Randy Mayagashima, there will be little change.

This is oil-country -don't you know!

Everyone- COULD be the CLAMPETS!

And everything here it reflects upon it. It's like the Gold Rush.
Real Estate is + 300% in the last 15 years.
This is EDMONTON ( what a dumb name). I can't stand this boring town. So cheezeball in the -City Of Champions - B.S.-and you pay more to live here than Palm Springs.
That was over 2 decades ago! They can't let it go and it's embarrassing.

How come Mike you still live here? You vote with your feet! 50 golf courses + Rockies 4 hours west+
relatively low taxes etc etc. With all the $$$ you save you can have holidays wherever. Winters really suck but then u become a snowbird when u r older. Oh back on track here, cheaper auto service in the US.

[aigel]

Most people expect to spend serious coin on either a car under warranty or some bigger repairs over the years. Most people know literally nothing about cars. They could not explain to you how a combustion engine works or point to any major components. These people are okay paying for the service. And a little I am sure the Pcar ownership plays into it as well. Most people that are tight don't drive a Pcar or at least not from the dealer.

Not sure if the travel south would pay for you - the hourly rate her isn't cheap either. An independent shop in LA has a ton of overhead and they have to pay their mechanic decent too if that guy wants to live in the area.

G

[mikeesik]

Originally Posted by recycled sixtie

How come Mike you still live here? You vote with your feet! 50 golf courses + Rockies 4 hours west+
relatively low taxes etc etc. With all the $$$ you save you can have holidays wherever. Winters really suck but then u become a snowbird when u r older. Oh back on track here, cheaper auto service in the US.

My Kids are here.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by szyzygy

This is not very ethical. Imagine if doctors did this.

Doctors do this. Exactly this. They bill based on the procedure, not their time. Unless there are complications that take them longer. Then they bill for that too.

Same with contractors, plumbers, IT guys......just about every profession I can think of. Even prostitutes.

[myamoto1]

Why even have an hourly rate, if everything is treated as a fixed bid agreement? I would expect to be billed based on actual hours worked. If they expect to go over the original estimate/quote, I expect a phone call.

I just had to replace the valve cover gasket on my wife's Kia Sedona. I was quoted around 7 hours of labor plus parts from 2 different dealerships. I spent the $35 in parts and spent 3.5 hours doing the job myself. No shop, no fancy tools and no manual. If it takes a trained tech nearly 4 hours more to do the same job, I have limited faith in our trade schools.

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Doctors do this. Exactly this. They bill based on the procedure, not their time. Unless there are complications that take them longer. Then they bill for that too.

Same with contractors, plumbers, IT guys......just about every profession I can think of. Even prostitutes.

If a prostitute snaps a bolt off, you're going to have a bad time...

[javadog]

Originally Posted by szyzygy

I always thought I got charged whatever time the mech actually worked.

Just saying this system lends itself to abuse/padding.

Nothing against mechs, all professions tend to do this whenever they can get away with it. Human nature I guess. I strive to overcome this everyday.

And this is why I attempt to work on my own car, with the help of those on this board.

Okay, I feel that a little life lesson is in order here...

If a mechanic could charge you however much time it took him to do something, there would be precious little incentive for him to get it done expeditiously. The longer he took, the more he'd make on the job. Want that scenario instead? Think you'd come out ahead in the long run? End of lesson.

Flat rate times aren't generated by a poll from a bunch of lazy mechanics sitting around and guessing what they think they can get past the customers. They start with the manufacturers, who have their own flat rate times for warranty work. They are not very generous. I've run shops where a VERY competent lead technician might have to do a particular job a half dozen times before he could do it in the time they allowed. And that doesn't take into account the time they waste pulling cars in and out of the shop, waiting for parts at the parts counter, filling out the peperwork, etc. That part's something they don't get paid for.

Other flat rate systems like those quoted above are a little more generous than those of the manufacturers but nobody's getting rich in that business. There's a lot of unpaid time diagnosing a problem, or dealing with unexpected occurences that have nothing to do with the repair at hand. Cars aren't so easy to repair once they have some time and miles on them. They are usually pretty filthy, things break when you remove them, etc. The guy working in a shop doesn't always have a couple days to soak something in rust penetrant, while the customer waits in the waiting room. It's not like working on a car in your garage.

And, who knows if the dealership was even using a flate rate system. Maybe they adjust the times, like some of them adjust the retail prices on parts? It's a business, not a goverment service. If they can't make a profit, they won't continue to exist. If they don't exist, that's not a good thing for Porsche ownership in your area.

Lastly, you may be able to do a simple repair pretty quickly, maybe even almost as quickly as a mechanic. When it comes to the really hard jobs, they'll knock something out in a day that might take you a week in your garage, if you could complete it at all. And, they get up the next day and do it again. Some of the stuff they do isn't for the casual tinkerer. I wouldn't change places with them for all the money in China.

Have fun,
JR

[kaisen]

Well said JR