How many more good years do you think indy repair shops have left in them?

[fastfredracing]

Man, every few moths, I see another local garage close their doors. I know , or know of most of these guys, and they all say the same thing, The biz sucks, and it is harder , and harder to make a buck these days.
Me, I saw the writing on the wall 12 years ago, and downsized my biz so that, like a cockroach, I can survive nearly anything. I am doing as good as I ever have, but seems like the shops with 3-10 employees, are dropping like flies.
I do agree , that it is getting harder to make a buck . The gravy train left the station 15 years ago. Back when I had employees, we did 2-3 motor replacements a week. Now, I do less than 10 a year. About 15% of the time I disconnect a battery, I have to spend half the fvkin' day rebooting all the modules, and making everything work again ( usually time ,and frustration I do not get paid, or paid well for)
Short of brakes/tires, and fluid changes, the biz has gotten super hard, and technical. Cars seem to be growing ever closer to being throw away appliances, and there is simply stuff, out there that I cannot fix anymore, lots of it.
The parts vendors are always selling me a line of bull of how good the biz is, but I am forced to ask them. " when was the last time you saw a new indy open it's doors?" .
My local tow guy delivered a car yesterday, and I mentioned to him that I saw him in the paper. ( he is in deep with back taxes). He told me , any day now, there will not be enough money to turn the lights on, and gas up the truck, and he will also be out. This is a biz that was around long before me.
What do ya think ? 10 decent years left maybe?

[Rot 911]

I think there will always be a place for the specialty car repair shop, like for old 911's, VW's, etc. But I agree that with newer cars there are just fewer things that go wrong. Engines and transmissions used to be your bread and butter, but now they last longer than the rest of the car does.

[widebody911]

The shop that my wife takes her Saabaru to just moved to a larger facility, and apparently has so much business that they didn't want to fit her in to replace a headlight ballast. The last time I was at their shop the place was absolutely packed with cars and guys wrenching on them, so biz must be good. I'm still annoyed that I will be the one who ends up replacing the ballast.

There are tons of used cars out there, and with shop rates what they are, when it comes time for major repairs, it's a no-brainer. It's cheaper to replace it than fix it. Example: a lady at my work had an E36 BMW with a bad trans. It was going to be $5k to get the trans fixed, but she could replace it with another E36 for $2500 - $3500.

On top of that, there's a cultural distrust of shops in general, but that's for another thread.

[kaisen]

It might be somewhat regional

I see lots of healthy independents around here. Lots. People are keeping their cars longer than ever. As their car passes 75K or 100K miles they look for alternatives to their dealer service department. Used parts, aftermarket parts, cheaper labor, honest dealings....a cheaper way to keep their older car on the road.

Around here, if you're good, ethical, and reasonable you'll have more work than you can handle.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Massachusetts just passed the "Right to Repair" bill. I'd say that bodes pretty well for independent shops.

[Hawkeye's-911T]

By kaisen: It might be somewhat regional. Around here, if you're good, ethical, and reasonable you'll have more work than you can handle.

Seems to be the same here as well.

Cheers
JB

[onewhippedpuppy]

Good here as well, at least for those with a good reputation. The local BMW indie of choice has about a one week backlog.

You do touch on some good points related to vehicle complexity, there are similar issues for both independent shops and DIY mechanics. There are a significant number of repair tasks on any modern car that require a $25k+ proprietary computer supplied by the manufacturer to complete, and there's no getting around it. To replace the F1 gearbox clutch on my 2003 Maserati is a mechanically complicated task, but one that I feel comfortable completing. However, clutch replacement also involves a number of alignment and calibration tasks that can only be completed in conjunction with a Maserati SD2/SD3 computer, expensive enough that only a few specialized independents have them. It used to be that a good mechanic, be it professional or DIY, could fix anything on their own with the right set of hand tools. That is no longer the case, and there's nothing any of us can do about it.

I sometimes think about simplifying and buying an older car that I can repair. Maybe a nice SC or Carrera, something that has enough modern amenities to be livable but isn't overly complicated. Give me power windows, power locks, cruise, and good A/C and I'm a happy man. I personally think that vehicle development hit a sweet spot of reliability/features/complexity in the late 1980s and early 1990s, and has been headed in the wrong direction ever since. Cars had power windows and locks in the 1960s, why in the hell does the same system now require multiple ECUs?

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

I personally think that vehicle development hit a sweet spot of reliability/features/complexity in the late 1980s and early 1990s, and has been headed in the wrong direction ever since. Cars had power windows and locks in the 1960s, why in the hell does the same system now require multiple ECUs?

I totally agree, and I think the answer has a LOT to do with government mandates and regulations.

[scottmandue]

Seems like all the old gas stations are being bought up and converted to auto repair shops around here. Mind you I see mostly older cars parked in the lots.

RE: Mats post... I often wonder if someone put out a low tech car in this day and age how it would do... if the price was right I would be interested. I don't even need electric window, just fuel injection and a stick shift.

[GH85Carrera]

The Feds REQUIRE traction control, ABS, airbags, tire pressure sensors and so on. Now all cars have a black box to record your last few seconds of driving. All of that is complex and expensive.

My old cars have none of those.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

The Feds REQUIRE traction control, ABS, airbags, tire pressure sensors and so on. Now all cars have a black box to record your last few seconds of driving.

Answer: What would be for insurance and dealership profits, 4th amendment violations, cops that don't show up at accidents, and people who have no business being on the road?

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

I often wonder if someone put out a low tech car in this day and age how it would do... if the price was right I would be interested. I don't even need electric window, just fuel injection and a stick shift.

It's called a Nissan Versa Sedan 1.6S

$10,990 MSRP brand new

106hp 5 speed
Air conditioning, CD with iPod hookup
All the mandated safety features

2012 Nissan Versa Sedan | Nissan USA

[mepstein]

Originally Posted by kaisen

It's called a Nissan Versa Sedan 1.6S

$10,990 MSRP brand new

106hp 5 speed
Air conditioning, CD with iPod hookup
All the mandated safety features

2012 Nissan Versa Sedan | Nissan USA

Reminds me of my wife's old dodge neon. Good little car when she graduated college.

[varmint]

1, Dealerships dislike working on cars more than ten years old.

2, the economy sucks. And Americans are holding on to their old cars longer and longer.

Independant shops should be able to hold on for a while.

[Zeke]

I was at the Porsche independent this morning and was told that he has 15 cars in "storage" waiting for a place in the shop. I think he was glad to see mine out of there.

[john walker's workshop]

no employees, just you, and specialize. don't take in anything that you don't want to do or you know will be a PITA. lots of places to refer them to. works for me. been in biz since 1980 and this is my best year so far.

[Rick V]

You also have to remember that cash for clunkers took a lot of work from the indy shops. Some of them may have held on as long as they could, but with fewer older cars, the skyrocketing cost of insurance one can only hold on but for so long.
You have a specialty place and as long as you treat your customers right, you will be fine. Your customers are yours to lose.

[rick-l]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Around here, if you're good, ethical, and reasonable you'll have more work than you can handle.

But you won't make a lot of money.

To make more money you have to hire several low skill employees and adopt some questionable work practices.

[gsxrken]

Around here, they are just about gone. All the old gas stations that used to have two service bays have been converted into convenience stores / Mobil-Marts.

The other thing that is even more gone is the machine shop. 25 years ago they were thriving, today they are all gone. I'm sure it's regional, but this is a wealthy NY suburb and the demographics have shifted hard away from manual competence.

[Tervuren]

The shop that used to work on my 944's, the owner died, I kept using them, but eventually they got bought by a chain. It became about #'s, and not service, car ready at end of month, take it right back because it wasn't ready, wait till end of month, repeat...three strikes your out.

I now have my own space to work on the cars, buy what tools I need, and let the dealer take care of what I don't feel like finding/making the special tool to do myself.