2012 Car & Driver "Best Driver's Car" -- Porsche 911 S hot-lap (video)

[kaisen]

[VincentVega]

Ha! Great fun on the track, but beaten by the Mustang??

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by VincentVega

Ha! Great fun on the track, but beaten by the Mustang??

Beaten by lots of cars, most of which are much less than the $123K of the 911S

But the whole "Best Driver's Car" series isn't about the raw numbers and lap times, but how rewarding those cars are to drive. Seems Randy reaaaaally likes the 911.....

(he really liked the Subaru BRZ too)

I've got an idea which car will win the series. We'll see.

[VincentVega]

Agree. Cost/$ is never a Porsche win, just stinks to see the Mustang on top.

I have limited seat time in a 991, would love to get to Laguna. Amazing car on track.

[speeder]

Raise your hand if you could drive any car at over 8/10ths @ Laguna Seca. If so, the Mustang wins.

[GH85Carrera]

Where is Paul to remind us of the mustang's superiority?

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by speeder

Raise your hand if you could drive any car at over 8/10ths @ Laguna Seca. If so, the Mustang wins.

I'm not sure what your post means. Clarify?

[HardDrive]

I don't live at Laguna Seca. I live out in the real world. What would you rather drive to work everyday in traffic? A 650hp Mustang with a manual, or a 400hp 911 with a PDK?

[mistertate]

Listen to how much coasting Randy does into and through corners with the Mustang, and his comments. Doesn't sound like fun at all to me. I got to do some laps on an oval in one of those mustangs and was happy to drive home in my 944

[speeder]

Quote de speeder

Raise your hand if you could drive any car at over 8/10ths @ Laguna Seca. If so, the Mustang wins.

I'm not sure what your post means. Clarify?

It means that minute differences in lap times between ultra-high performance new cars are irrelevant when your skill set would not allow you to drive either car at more than about 6 or 7 tenths. All other differences over shadow the lap times, unless they're significant.

A couple of small mods on the 911 would improve its lap times but make it a schittier car in everyday life, IOW make It more like the Mustang.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by speeder

It means that minute differences in lap times between ultra-high performance new cars are irrelevant when your skill set would not allow you to drive either car at more than about 6 or 7 tenths. All other differences over shadow the lap times, unless they're significant.

A couple of small mods on the 911 would improve its lap times but make it a schittier car in everyday life, IOW make It more like the Mustang.

I get what you're saying

On the other hand, the whole point of C&D's "Best Driver's Car" is to highlight (or discover) which car's abilities are the most accessible and forgiving.

Even if two cars have similar lap times in the hands of a pro like Randy Pobst, that doesn't mean that they're equal in the hands of schleps like me. I might be faster in the 911 because it broadcasts its intentions and allows me to be comfortable driving it closer to its limits. The other car might kick, buck, scratch, and fight its way to an equal lap time but guys like you and me may never be able to replicate.

Anyway, I think the winner will suprise you. And the BRZ makes your point very clearly. It's not as fast as the 911, but it's WAY more accurate and forgiving. It's never been "easy" to jump in a 911 and drive it fast right out of the box. It's a learned skill.

[Joe Bob]

Just for laughs....

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by speeder

It means that minute differences in lap times between ultra-high performance new cars are irrelevant when your skill set would not allow you to drive either car at more than about 6 or 7 tenths. All other differences over shadow the lap times, unless they're significant.

A couple of small mods on the 911 would improve its lap times but make it a schittier car in everyday life, IOW make It more like the Mustang.

Right on, speeder. The point is that all of these cars so thoroughly transcend our abilities on the track, much less any sane man's needs on the street, that their ultimate performance has become moot.

I remember reading a 600 sport bike shoot-out in Cycle World a year or two ago. With pro riders aboard, their lap times at Willow Springs spanned a four or five second range. For many, the "obvious" conclusion was that some bikes were "superior" to others. The Cycle World staff, however, did their best to set everyone straight regarding this perception.

They said, essentially, that we don't care who you are or where you ride - you will never, ever extract the "worst" bike's performance from the "best" bike. In other words, the entire field's performance was so far beyond most riders' skills, and any sane level of street performance, that the differences in performance had effectively been rendered moot. They said that we have reached the point where you could now choose your next 600 sport "like a girl" - pick the color you like. You'll never be able to exploit the difference.

[enzo1]

I still like it....

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Right on, speeder. The point is that all of these cars so thoroughly transcend our abilities on the track, much less any sane man's needs on the street, that their ultimate performance has become moot.

I remember reading a 600 sport bike shoot-out in Cycle World a year or two ago. With pro riders aboard, their lap times at Willow Springs spanned a four or five second range. For many, the "obvious" conclusion was that some bikes were "superior" to others. The Cycle World staff, however, did their best to set everyone straight regarding this perception.

They said, essentially, that we don't care who you are or where you ride - you will never, ever extract the "worst" bike's performance from the "best" bike. In other words, the entire field's performance was so far beyond most riders' skills, and any sane level of street performance, that the differences in performance had effectively been rendered moot. They said that we have reached the point where you could now choose your next 600 sport "like a girl" - pick the color you like. You'll never be able to exploit the difference.

Yep. With bikes this theory is even more true, i.e. there is a bigger gap between what a member of the public could extract, performance-wise, and the machine's actual potential.

This not to completely throw lap times out the window. These are sports cars, after all. And a Mustang, or any lower priced car, hanging with the newest 911 or Ferrari is impressive as hell. Porsche will NEVER win the *most bang for the buck* contest of sports cars or sporty cars. Never has, even back in the 356 days. What they build are amazingly beautiful objects of German engineering that win endurance races to an extent that no other manufacturer even holds a candle. Though Audi, (irony of ironies), is giving them a run for it with the newest TDI diesel LeMans cars.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Right on, speeder. The point is that all of these cars so thoroughly transcend our abilities on the track, much less any sane man's needs on the street, that their ultimate performance has become moot.

I remember reading a 600 sport bike shoot-out in Cycle World a year or two ago. With pro riders aboard, their lap times at Willow Springs spanned a four or five second range. For many, the "obvious" conclusion was that some bikes were "superior" to others. The Cycle World staff, however, did their best to set everyone straight regarding this perception.

They said, essentially, that we don't care who you are or where you ride - you will never, ever extract the "worst" bike's performance from the "best" bike. In other words, the entire field's performance was so far beyond most riders' skills, and any sane level of street performance, that the differences in performance had effectively been rendered moot. They said that we have reached the point where you could now choose your next 600 sport "like a girl" - pick the color you like. You'll never be able to exploit the difference.

This thought has often crossed my mind with my current Maserati coupe. It's by no means a supercar by 2012 standards, but with 390 HP it's pretty quick. Around town anything other than putting around at low RPMs quickly puts me above the speed limit, and anything other than a brief blip of the throttle quickly puts me at handcuff speeds. Contrast that with my 230 HP RX8, where I can hit redline in 1st and 2nd gear before backing off to blend in with traffic. Both are fun, but the RX8 is much more accessible in the real world.

[enzo1]

Rx8 compared to a Maserati coupe? No...

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

They said, essentially, that we don't care who you are or where you ride - you will never, ever extract the "worst" bike's performance from the "best" bike. In other words, the entire field's performance was so far beyond most riders' skills, and any sane level of street performance, that the differences in performance had effectively been rendered moot. They said that we have reached the point where you could now choose your next 600 sport "like a girl" - pick the color you like. You'll never be able to exploit the difference.

Yes, all true. And now we reach the murk of marketing and pyschology. Selling bikes and cars to men is not about the actual performance, its about the perception of performance.

Which is why we rear wings on Camrys and 600hp Mustangs, and TipTronic 911s.