DE's can get expensive

[IROC]

Originally Posted by motion

What's the big deal? Isn't this just a simple insurance claim? I know for bikes, most insurance companies will insure a crash if its a DE, rather than a timed competition event.

Yeah, I think these days are over. My policy makes a statement along the lines of "operating the vehicle on a course intended for racing" negates the coverage even if the vehicle isn't racing.

A friend of mine totaled his car at Road Atlanta back in 1993 (turn 7) and his insurance company paid the claim. Ahhh..the good ol' days.

[Christien]

The issue of DEs actually went to court here in Ontario recently, and the court found that, so long as there's no racing, insurance can't deny your claim. So here we're covered. The problem, I would imagine, would be finding coverage after making a claim. Surely your insurance company would drop you like a stone, and it wouldn't surprise me if there was an industry blacklist.

If anyone's curious, we discussed it at length on rennlist, including a copy of the judgment itself:

Court decision re insurance coverage at the track - Rennlist Discussion Forums

[JeremyD]

Originally Posted by ErVikingo

IMHO, not cool to post pics of cars banged up in DE's.

+1 - bad ju ju unless it's your car

[cairns]

IMHO, not cool to post pics of cars banged up in DE's.

+100. Let's not do this folks. Insurance companies are going to look for reasons not to pay. I'm not saying this gives them one but if the guy/girl doesn't have track insurance........

[matt f]

State Farm in PA covers HPDE's but not timed events. Some ins co's realize that DE participants are better and safer drivers. (generally)
Agree on not posting photo's, unless it's your car.

[Jeff Higgins]

No insurance companies in Washington cover DE events. We can buy specialized track insurance.

Posting photos or video on the internet of cars damaged at DE's ran by the PCA, BMW club, Corvette club, and many others who are affiliated with these clubs will result in an immediate and lifetime ban from all DE's run by these clubs. No exceptions, no ifs ands or buts. Post 'em and your gone - forever. Our local clubs take the privacy of DE participants very, very seriously.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Gonna be hard to explain that one to the ins co.

FIFY

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

No insurance companies in Washington cover DE events. We can buy specialized track insurance.

Posting photos or video on the internet of cars damaged at DE's ran by the PCA, BMW club, Corvette club, and many others who are affiliated with these clubs will result in an immediate and lifetime ban from all DE's run by these clubs. No exceptions, no ifs ands or buts. Post 'em and your gone - forever. Our local clubs take the privacy of DE participants very, very seriously.

How does one keep pics off the Net posted by other nosy folks at the track?

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Zeke

How does one keep pics off the Net posted by other nosy folks at the track?

Good question. I guess you really can't.

I think most of the people at DE's are participating, so maybe that kind of serves to limit this a bit. Granted, I do see friends and family just hanging out at DE's, but not too many, really. It's not much of a spectator sport, at least around here.

[GLASEM]

As a past PCA Region Safety Chair.......anytime we had such an incident......we highly......requested no posting of pictures for all the same reasons noted

As a Mini Cooper owner.....I was on that site a few weeks ago and there was discussion about a hard Mini crash at a track here in Michigan.

Everyone wanted pictures.......I posted the reasons noted here

Insurance companies have personnel looking at sites just for these things

Posting pictures from races is a different matter

Keep the crash pictures to yourself

[greglepore]

So, what are you guys saying? That its ok to submit a bogus claim and pics shouldn't be posted because it might defeat same?

I can think of a bunch of reasons not to post pics of misfortune occurring at a DE, but the fact that it might clue an ins co onto the TRUTH seems like a lame one.

Not that I'm oblivious to all the blue deer that live around Watkins Glen

[kach22i]

Education is an expensive thing.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by greglepore

So, what are you guys saying?

I'm saying posting crash pics or crash video from DE's in my area will get you banned for life from those DE's. That's all I said; I never got into the "why". That should be self-evident, and it has nothing to do with insurance. Remember, I said we are explicitely not covered at track events by any insurance companies in Washington.

Originally Posted by greglepore

That its ok to submit a bogus claim and pics shouldn't be posted because it might defeat same?

I never even hinted at that, although GLASEM may have.

What happens at the track stays at the track. Anyone who damages their car has enough trouble without having to deal with photos and video on the internet that may of may not accurately portray what happened. And it is certainly not the business of any third party to be posting "look what I saw" crap all over the internet.

[DUK]

Originally Posted by greglepore

So, what are you guys saying? That its ok to submit a bogus claim and pics shouldn't be posted because it might defeat same?

I can think of a bunch of reasons not to post pics of misfortune occurring at a DE, but the fact that it might clue an ins co onto the TRUTH seems like a lame one.

Not that I'm oblivious to the all the blue deer that live around Watkins Glen

Your last sentence made me blow margarita out my nose.

[greglepore]

Jeff, agree and apologize if I painted with a broad brush. The reasons you state are among the "bunch of other reasons" I referred to...

[Racerbvd]

Well, you can buy DE insurance, it is offered with our Dark Side DEs, Dark Side Index
We started B&B Track Car rentals LLS so people wouldn't have to risk their cars , they can risk ours
Like us on FB. https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.461708509512.246615.186854959512&type=3

In the past, many of you have asked us if your regular insurance company will insure your car at a Driver Ed. We've asked you to speak to your agents. Some do, some don't and most try to get out of it. If you do have an accident at the track, you insurance company may pay, and they may increase your rates or even force you to look for another insurance company.

DARK SIDE APPROVED:
The Dark Side is now a Lockton Affinity approved as a Driver Event. That means our participants' cars are eligible to be covered by Lockton Affinity Insurance, for our event at Roebling Road Raceway, including the Friday Lapping Day.

HOW TO GET YOUR INSURANCE:
If you want to sign up for insurance immediately, please go to: HPDE Insurance Program and click on HPDE Insurance for DarkSide DE event at Roebling Road Raceway. That will take you to a form needed to be filled out for approval. There will be one price quoted to you -- and that price is for entire Dark Side November event.

MORE INFORMATION:
This program was started for a niche group of the folks who love their cars and their driving experience. They may attend a track event 6-8 times, or less, a year, and want that extra peace of mind. This might be the perfect solution.

Article at Just Racing: MotorsportReg.com and Lockton Affinity Launch Innovative Track Insurance Program

Samples of how the program works: MotorsportReg.com : Event Insurance

Estimates and more information: HPDE Insurance Program

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I'm saying posting crash pics or crash video from DE's in my area will get you banned for life from those DE's. That's all I said; I never got into the "why". That should be self-evident, and it has nothing to do with insurance. Remember, I said we are explicitely not covered at track events by any insurance companies in Washington.



I never even hinted at that, although GLASEM may have.

What happens at the track stays at the track. Anyone who damages their car has enough trouble without having to deal with photos and video on the internet that may of may not accurately portray what happened. And it is certainly not the business of any third party to be posting "look what I saw" crap all over the internet.

Jeez, Louise. PPOT has never done that, huh? Links to videos of Cobras crashing and one that flipped spectacularly at Willow are all here. Are we not participating in helping those ins cos finding this stuff? This is the first I've heard of a track ban due to posting pics, but I fear that if one guy didn't take the pic or the video, a next one might. Then he's going to go to his favorite forum and be the first to break the "news."

There are 6 titles on the PP track forum with the word crash in them. There are 7 with the word spin in them. And the list goes on.

[TimT]

And it is certainly not the business of any third party to be posting "look what I saw" crap all over the internet.

LOL that's about one of the funniest things I have ever read...

Count the number of thread where people do just exactly that....

There is a post on PPOT with over 45,000 replies, and over 9.2 million views of people posting "look what I saw" crap all over the internet...

The Bugatti going for a swim..... etc the list goes on and on...

Banned from DEs for posting pics...

[GLASEM]

Don't read anything into my post about bogus insurance claims......there's nothing there to even imply that

Like someone posted......what happens at the track stays at the track

[nostatic]

POC didn't have a policy of "no pictures" and I never heard of anyone banned for anything of the kind. The tracks allow spectators and I've never seen anyone discourage cameras. In fact the only thing that I think is "off limits" is a fatal or serious injury. Bent metal? Sorry, don't see the issue. If somebody stuffed their car there could be any number of reasons for it. Usually it is mental error. Why shouldn't others be reminded about that possibility?

I suppose no more pictures of spoons or girls. Wouldn't want anyone looking at them...

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

What happens at the track stays at the track.

As far as I can tell, short of potential legal claims, the only thing at risk is the ego of the driver. Apparently some of those are pretty fragile...