Getting engineering drawings for a building

[patssle]

I'm trying to put a metal building in my backyard for the P-cars (light gauge, no heavy beams). I have HOA approval - now working on the city permit. They need engineering-approved drawings - and the metal building company wants to charge $600 for drawings. It's not anything exotic, a 14x26 with a garage door and walk-in door. So basically they want to bend me over because they know I need the drawings.

Anybody have any experience with this, a work around or something to satisfy the city? Or a way to get drawings at a reduced amount?

[dad911]

Shop around and find another supplier that has an engineer on staff and will supply the drawings.

[URY914]

Every manufacturer will change you extra for sign/sealed drawings. They are not always needed so they are not part of the baseline package price. If you need them, then you will pay for them.

[einreb]

Originally Posted by URY914

Every manufacturer will change you extra for sign/sealed drawings. They are not always needed so they are not part of the baseline package price. If you need them, then you will pay for them.

its not the drawings that are costing you the money (its a sunk cost), its the liability incurred by the engineer caused by your local municipality requiring the stamped drawings.

its unlikely that any professional engineer is going to give you drawings for less than that, but you can certainly try. As a professional engineer, I cant take a piss for less than $500.

Its just the nature of the industry... I'm in it... and I'm not a fan.

:shrugs:

[look 171]

Why do you think they are bending you over? You want more, then you have to pay for it. Engineering isn't cheap. That stamp cost money. To me this is like asking for that big mechanic's manual from the dealer when you buy the car. The owner's manual, they will give you all day long, but that big, thick, fat one no way.

[EarlyPorsche]

Pay the $600 and get it from the source who is making the building you will inevitably have. Feel blessed that a HOA approved a steel building, and don't sweat the small bills...this kind of construction will be full of surprise costs that make this one silly.

[Nostril Cheese]

Originally Posted by look 171

Why do you think they are bending you over? You want more, then you have to pay for it. Engineering isn't cheap. That stamp cost money. To me this is like asking for that big mechanic's manual from the dealer when you buy the car. The owner's manual, they will give you all day long, but that big, thick, fat one no way.

Or the cost of all the equipment and tools to fix the car.

You think $600 is a bowel flush? Go price a seat of CATIA.

[look 171]

What's a CATIA?

[Nostril Cheese]

This is what you can do with CATIA

[Nostril Cheese]

Here's a 917 engine done in Solidworks.

[look 171]

Cool program. I use AutoCAD back in college during the early 90s. Haven't since, because there isn't a real need for it. A tool is never cheap because it makes you money. CAD programs are great tools if there's a need for it. I am not sure structural engineers have a need for programs like CATIA.

[patssle]

Originally Posted by EarlyPorsche

Pay the $600 and get it from the source who is making the building you will inevitably have. Feel blessed that a HOA approved a steel building, and don't sweat the small bills...this kind of construction will be full of surprise costs that make this one silly.

I definitely do. Trying to explain why a metal roof is better than an asphalt roof to 1 old guy and a group of ladies and getting them to grant me an exemption is a miracle!

I guess my whole thing is that I know they aren't coming up with engineering drawings from scratch, especially for a building that isn't unique. I'm going to shop around, see if anybody else will offer it at a lower cost. But if it's the cost of doing business, so be it.

[look 171]

Just get it form the company. Its already all there. if you go with another engineer, it will cost you a heck of a lot more because he has to re-calculate everything all over again. That's a lot of time. $600 is really a very small amount. You biggest headache is over. Remember the HOA approval. If the city just want engineering only and grant you a building permit, I pay $1200 for the drawings and kiss the person behind the counter. The biggest roadblock in construction is getting the building permit. the rest is a piece of cake.

[Nostril Cheese]

Originally Posted by look 171

Cool program. I use AutoCAD back in college during the early 90s. Haven't since, because there isn't a real need for it. A tool is never cheap because it makes you money. CAD programs are great tools if there's a need for it. I am not sure structural engineers have a need for programs like CATIA.

I use it quite often. FEA is a good tool to have.

[Eric 951]

I work in the steel/iron construction business--600.00 for stamped engineered drawings is not a big deal. You can farm them out if you wish, but if the engineer which you find stamps them, and there is an issue down the road, the building supplier wouldn't have any liability provided they supplied what they said they were going to supply.

Whereas if the supplier also does the stamping/engineering and there is an issue it would be easier to get resolution.

I would pny up the money and have them do the engineering.

[EarlyPorsche]

Originally Posted by patssle

I definitely do. Trying to explain why a metal roof is better than an asphalt roof to 1 old guy and a group of ladies and getting them to grant me an exemption is a miracle!

I guess my whole thing is that I know they aren't coming up with engineering drawings from scratch, especially for a building that isn't unique. I'm going to shop around, see if anybody else will offer it at a lower cost. But if it's the cost of doing business, so be it.

So what is the HOA meeting like? Do they have omnipotent power? I was under the impression that Houston Texas was relatively zoning regulation free? For work I am in Houston once a year and absolutely love it.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

You're not just paying for the drawings, you're paying for the skill and knowledge that goes behind them, as well as the design professional assuming liability for them - health & life safety, code compliance, etc.

$600 for a set of drawings is nothing in the grand scheme of things when it comes to construction. If you're grumbling about a few hundred bucks, you ought to consider whether you really have the resources for this project - especially if/when additional costs you might not anticipate start creeping in - have you checked what it's going to cost for plan check fees, permit fees, etc.? Those can often run more than the professional services costs.

Have you checked with the planning department? They may need a review and to issue an approval also, regardless of what the building department says. How about the fire department? Are there separate plan review processes or do they get handled by the building department and routed for all other applicable approvals by them as part of your plan review? (This varies by municipality). There can be others as well - you need to check all that so you don't run afoul of some agency who can make your life miserable down the road.

YMMV - we can chat more about it if you'd like.

[ODDJOB UNO]

let ME give YOU a lil advice re: zoning and permits and plans.


once upon a time.............this certain MORON decided to build some structures on a property that the previous owner built walls around without permits and brought in over 40 truckloads of dirt and changed grade.

the new owner was b.s'd by realtor as to what was what and that all was cool with property.


well since then this certain MORON, wanted to run a biz out of this residence. this was brought to zonings attention,along with OTHER problems with non permitted walls built on county easements and grade change and sheet flooding issues due to grade change.

this moron decided also to not get permits for (2) pre fabbed structures he brought in let alone for (2) 1/2 azz'd structures he built which have since been destroyed (as in wasted flat) by wind storms. i am NOT MAKING THIS UP! i saw this with my own eyes. just envision a microburst tearing a POS building apart beam by beam shingle by shingle and finally lifting entire structure into air and it smashing to the ground in lil itty bitty splinters.



let me put it in laymans terms:



any zoning, city state county likes to play baseball. and in baseball you have 3 strikes and yer OUT!


when you FAIL to obtain eng plans and permits zoning gives you 3 strikes to come into compliance.


when a certain MORON runs the ZEO(zoning enforcement officer) off of his property yelling profanitys and threats......................guess WHAT?????



a certain MORON gets FAST TRACKED on the DESIGNATED HITTER LIST!



and when a certain MORON signs a county document promising COMPLIANCE after the 3rd strike and mandatory county zoning hearing and DOES NOT COME INTO COMPLIANCE @ $50 a day ..............................it QUICKLY ADDS UP to over $9000 in fines over a few months.



this is STRIKE FOUR (4) and NOW ITS PAY THE FINE AND OR JAIL! OR BOTH! and then get the eng plans and the proper permits.



and guess who comes to the PARTY NOW???????




THE COUNTY ATTORNEY!




and NOW ITS UGLY x a MILL-YON!




so get the drawings/get the PERMITS! do it BY THE BOOK!



and the reality of all of this as part of my job is dealing with city/county zoning laws, is the ZEO(zoning enforcement officer) IS YOUR FRIEND!



HE IS THE BUFFER BTWN YOU and SHADY POS CONTRACTORS! its a pretty good checks and balance system, that PROTECTS YOU!



i cannot tell you how many times DOCUMENTED SURVEYS which cost a boatload in their own right have saved our bacon, as far as easements, property lines,utilities are concerned.


cannot tell you how many times getting proper permits and hiring LICENSED BONDED INSURED CONTRACTORS have saved our bacon.



save yerself a lot of headaches. pissing zoning off is just bad ju-ju,trust me. they WILL WIN AND THEY WILL KICK YER AZZ SO HIGH YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SEE STRAIGHT WHEN THEY RUN OVER YOU WITH THEIR FREIGHT TRAIN!

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by patssle

$600 for drawings.

If that includes foundation/footing design plus an engineer's seal you are getting a bargain.

Normally pre-fab buildings require a local engineer design the footings based on a soil boring report. Do you have one of those?

[nota]

600 is high to photo copy existing plans
it ain't like they have to do it from scratch