So, is everybody cool if they burned the cabin down without even trying to negotiate?

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Rtrorkt

news reports say fire was from tear gas canisters thrown in the house to get him to come out.

According to the live news video, the tear gas canisters were shot into the cabin AFTER the cops darn near ran out of ammo turning that cabin into swiss cheese.

they had decided to murder that man a week ago. They were just waiting for the chance.
yes I'm sure he deserved it but it's not up to me and it's not up to the cops to decide that. It's up to a jury of his peers in a court of law.

If we let the cops "off" the low-lifes, pretty soon they'll be "offing" the rest of us too.
I respect law enforcement but absolutely will not look the other way when they get out of control.

[Hydrocket]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

They certainly were justified in shooting back at him, since he initiated gunplay. But burning the cabin down? What was the urgency here? He had no hostage, the cabin was totally surrounded and in the middle of nowhere. He couldn't have had much food to last him very long. They could cut off power, gas and water to make him less comfortable. I hope the cabin owner and his insurance company sue the cops. I doubt any cop will face any punishment over any of this, even the ones who shot up the innocents. Cops are above the law, that's for sure.

This!! Time was on the police's side. They had no intention of bringing him in. And planning and lighting the cabin on fire is premeditated, no? The fire was deliberately set.

I'm sure others have read that partial transcipt from the San Bernardino Sherriff system feed. Pretty damning. "Alright, we're going to go ahead with the plan with the burners"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X-WoiJhVY8

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Rot 911

News reports are going to be based solely on the information given to them by the cops.

Yup. None of them are going to do any real digging. Would be interesting to see what the FBI has to say about this.

[Hydrocket]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Yup. None of them are going to do any real digging. Would be interesting to see what the FBI has to say about this.

You'd think the FBI will back them up, because isn't this exactly what the FBI did in Waco??

They'd be hard pressed to be critical when they essentially did the same thing, no?

[widgeon13]

It's over and they probably saved the taxpayers some money.

[ODDJOB UNO]

what would you do if you were the DAM WATCHMAN and he went to the bottom of the dam on scuba with his gopro and exploded a device, and rode the torrent of water all the way down to make his escape????



i guess you'd be going WTF? and looking for another DAM JOB!

[bivenator]

I am ok with the burning of the house intentional or otherwise. A delay as they wait for him to give up could cost more lives. In this case I am fine with the use of excessive force.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

...I respect law enforcement but absolutely will not look the other way when they get out of control.

Who the hell hijacked Sammy's id? I distinctly remember your position when an "out of control" cop shot and killed an 18 year old (a prominent attorney's kid) through his closed front door a few years back. A simple "summons to appear" would have sufficed in that instance (but not here), and several of us caught hell for questioning the LEO's back then. What a "double standard" you seem to have acquired . My position is this: If you "declare war" whether as an ex-cop or a US citizen "terrorist" overseas, then "it is what it is"

[dan88911]

Yeah, the youtube stuff says it all.
Hey does the cabin owner get full replace value for the lost of property etc.
plus the million dollar reward.

[Crowbob]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

They certainly were justified in shooting back at him, since he initiated gunplay. But burning the cabin down? What was the urgency here? He had no hostage, the cabin was totally surrounded and in the middle of nowhere. He couldn't have had much food to last him very long. They could cut off power, gas and water to make him less comfortable. I hope the cabin owner and his insurance company sue the cops. I doubt any cop will face any punishment over any of this, even the ones who shot up the innocents. Cops are above the law, that's for sure.

Maybe they thought they were in Texas and there was a bunch of kids in there being abused.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Hydrocket

You'd think the FBI will back them up, because isn't this exactly what the FBI did in Waco??

They'd be hard pressed to be critical when they essentially did the same thing, no?

The FBI had plenty of ownership in Waco, not so much in this one. The FBI went in after the ATF bungled the whole thing and decided to wait them out. Janet Reno made the call to end the standoff, not the FBI. In this one the FBI, AFAIK, had nothing to do with it and is less likely to whitewash it.

[ZOA NOM]

I think I gotta come down with Sammy on this one. We've let the "authorities" run wild in this country. While there was indeed a shootout, and I have no problem with him taking return fire, I gotta draw the line at simply burning the cornered man alive. There is, after all, a rule of law, and if I'm gonna go to the mat over my 2A rights to bear arms, I gotta stick with the 5A rights as well. Sure, he's a bad dude, and I would have voted for the death penalty, but we gotta control these authorities, or we might as well let 'em kill every perp they come across.

[Crowbob]

All this talk about due process might lead one to believe even the cops don't trust the courts. So the cops are corrupt because the courts are corrupt?

We need more laws!

[rusnak]

I was listening to the system feed from the SBD police dept online. There is zero doubt that they started the fire to flush him out. They were talking about the possibility of him running out after the fire started. It was empty, and already had no power or heat since the owner had shut everything off before leaving for the winter. They had also rammed holes through 3 of the walls, and were looking via remote vehicle at a garbage bag behind the front door and blood spatters on one of the walls.

I think Dornan was hit and was hiding inside the cabin when they shot incendiaries into the cabin, which went up like a roman candle.

[motion]

In what sense did the LAPD burn the guy alive? It was his decision to stay in the house and burn to death, or eat a bullet, or whatever. He had ample time to notice the fire and evacuate the house, either surrendering, fighting or fleeing. Its not like the LAPD dropped a bomb on the place. A few tear canisters lit flammable items, which I'm guessing took some time to develop into a full on fire.

[rusnak]

^ Nope. The whole cabin was burned to the ground in less than an hour.

Also, I seriously doubt that he was going to leave that cabin alive. Earlier, they had tried to blast him out with a loudspeaker.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by motion

In what sense did the LAPD burn the guy alive? It was his decision to stay in the house and burn to death, or eat a bullet, or whatever. He had ample time to notice the fire and evacuate the house, either surrendering, fighting or fleeing. Its not like the LAPD dropped a bomb on the place. A few tear canisters lit flammable items, which I'm guessing took some time to develop into a full on fire.

If you put incendiaries into a bldg. and it catches fire, you started the fire. Try to argue otherwise (as a non-LEO anyway) in any court in the US. Yes, Dorner made a series of very bad decisions, and every chance he got to the right thing, he did the opposite. The cops weren't far behind in their poor decision making either. But they'll skate for it. Where/when else are th cops allowed to burn down a bldg. with a suspect in it, when there's no hostage or any chance of innocents getting in the crossfire?

[Crowbob]

A fire can erupt into a full blown conflagration in less than 15 seconds.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

According to the live news video, the tear gas canisters were shot into the cabin AFTER the cops darn near ran out of ammo turning that cabin into swiss cheese.

they had decided to murder that man a week ago. They were just waiting for the chance.
yes I'm sure he deserved it but it's not up to me and it's not up to the cops to decide that. It's up to a jury of his peers in a court of law.

If we let the cops "off" the low-life's, pretty soon they'll be "offing" the rest of us too.
I respect law enforcement but absolutely will not look the other way when they get out of control.

Totally agree... if we give the PD the green light to be judge and jury we are giving up due process and our rights as Americans.

You folks remember our rights as Americans?

[rusnak]

Yup. Dorner running into an empty cabin was a very lucky break for the PD. Dorner must have known this, as he tried to escape but was driven back into it after shooting two more deputies.