So, is everybody cool if they burned the cabin down without even trying to negotiate?

[fintstone]

Seriously...Does anyone know of any evidence that Dorner actually killed anyone...other than that last day when he was on the run? I have not seen anything mentioned in the news. He was a "suspect"...and then they just started saying he did it without providing any additional info. Is the only evidence that he killed Monica Quan, her fiance, Keith Lawrence, Michael Crain, etc some facebook posts? Are there videos of him at the crime scene, positive IDs, or...?

[MMARSH]

Originally Posted by fintstone

How exactly was he going to do that without exposing himself to the 500 rounds that were reportedly fired at him? Wasn't phone, electricity, cable, and internet shut off as reported?

Well first of all stop shooting. But before that, when you were hiding out for several days a few hundred feet from the command post were there was a crap load of media. Call a news station, FBI office or anybody you thought could keep the cops off of you while you turn yourself in. If he was seriously concerned, he couldve come out butt ass naked. (Wouldnt be the first time) If he really thought he was going to be killed anyway, what difference would it have made. There were TV cameras and media everywhere, because the immediate area was thought to be clear.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by MMARSH

Well first of all stop shooting. But before that, when you were hiding out for several days a few hundred feet from the command post were there was a crap load of media. Call a news station, FBI office or anybody you thought could keep the cops off of you while you turn yourself in. If he was seriously concerned, he couldve come out butt ass naked. (Wouldnt be the first time) If he really thought he was going to be killed anyway, what difference would it have made. There were TV cameras and media everywhere, because the immediate area was thought to be clear.

I suspect he thought he could escape. He knew he would die in prison...if not on the way there.

If he really just wanted to kill cops...why didn't he when he was a few hundred feet from the command post?

But that really doesn't matter as to whether or not he deserved a trial. Criminals are tried all the time that didn't turn themselves in. It is their Constitutional right to due process.

[MMARSH]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Tell me about that information. If you have any evidence of that other than a facebook post, please share. I have seen no evidence that he was the one that killed anyone other than the very last ones...who were reportedly shooting at him...have you? Is ther video, fingerprints, positive ID by witnesses?

Actually, there is additional information, but not released to the public. I'm sure as the days go by, now that there will be no trial, more info will be released to the public, but off course people will think its fabricated.

[MMARSH]

Originally Posted by fintstone

I suspect he thought he could escape. He knew he would die in prison...if not on the way there.

If he really just wanted to kill cops...why didn't he when he was a few hundred feet from the command post?

But that really doesn't matter as to whether or not he deserved a trial. Criminals are tried all the time that didn't turn themselves in. It is their Constitutional right to due process.

Well when he decided to keep shooting at the police and failed to comply with the commands given, I think its reasonable to assume he was willing to waive those rights.

I'm out of here.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by MMARSH

Actually, there is additional information, but not released to the public. I'm sure as the days go by, now that there will be no trial, more info will be released to the public, but off course people will think its fabricated.

I can believe that...although I am surprised the press had not questioned it.

[bivenator]

MMarsh thanks for your level headed replies. I hold the police to a high standard and criticize them when they are wrong. I am suprised by some of the comments demanding an arrest of Dorner. He didn't want to be arrested and ultimately got his wish. To expect cops to further risk thier lives to apprehend a man who has.... whatever, you know the rest.
Anyway, I got the cops back on the cabin shootout, however the civilians they shot up in trying to find Dorner was inexcusable.
Stay safe.

[fintstone]

I guess the reason that so many are sensitive to this are the recent killings of other American citizens with drones with neither charges nor a trial. It seems that most Americans are just not concerned when another American's rights are violated...if the poor fellow is unpopular. It seems to be a troublesome precedent.

[ZOA NOM]

MMarsh, I hope you take away from this thread only that there is vigorous debate, and not that anyone here has any feelings of disrespect for you or law enforcement in general. It is a profession, as I said, that we expect a lot from, and we criticize every detail, while ignoring the great work that most of them do. I certainly appreciate your efforts, and hope that you stay safe out there.

[Rick Lee]

I've been pulled over plenty while carrying, but never had a gun in my hand when the officer approached. I've also never had a cop disarm me when I told him I was armed. I guess I just give off that vibe of, while irriatated they pulled me over, I'm gonna cooperate.

One time in college I was yanked out at gunpoint when the cops were looking for a van just like mine, but they let me go, didn't even ask for ID, when they got a good look at me.

If I were approaching a violent, suspected felon, believed to be armed, I'd want back up and I'd order them out of the car while I stayed behind my door with sidearm or rifle drawn. I wouldn't walk up to the guy's window and I wouldn't even think of firing at someone I couldn't ID and couldn't verfiy was armed or making highly furtive movements. If he ignored my commands to exit the car and walk backwards to me, then I'd be a little more upset, but still wouldn't shoot the guy. I just don't have the slightest inclination to shoot someone I can't ID or see to be armed or coming at me in a threatening manner. But then I try to stay away from those situations in the first place and am not in a line of work that puts me in contact with such people.