996 Advice / Pricing

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by aigel

Good point, but none of those engines blew components in the case, ending up with shards of metal into oiling system. Also, they were all rebuildable by a decent DIY mechanic. They also are not part of a rapidly depreciating car, where you practically total the vehicle with an engine failure.

The best way to avoid the whole mess is by buying a GT3 or a TT which have the good old case of the 993/964. I would recommend my parents to stretch into a TT or GT3 if they go for a 996.

G

We've had this argument before on the exact same topic. The cost to rebuild an air-cooled 911 motor is no less than that to rebuild an M96, and good luck finding an SC or Carrera that hasn't had or needs some form of engine work before 100k. Valve guides, pulled or snapped head studs, pistons contacting valves after a failed mechanical chain tensioner.......what else did I miss? For 1/2 the price of a Carrera oil-fed tensioner upgrade you can eliminate the one serious issue with the M96, that puts it in perspective pretty well for me. I'm not knocking the air-cooled cars, because I think all 911s are pretty special. But they all have potentially expensive issues and to argue otherwise is ill-informed. If you want Toyota reliability, you buy a Camry.

Depreciation is definitely a valid point, but it's also how you can get a fantastic car for very little money. As a counterpoint, I bought a nice driver 1970 911T for $4800 back in 2002. Only a few years ago you could buy a nice SC for $10k and a nice Carrera for $15k. In 20 years we might be lamenting all of the cheap 996s that we missed out on.

[aigel]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

We've had this argument before on the exact same topic. The cost to rebuild an air-cooled 911 motor is no less than that to rebuild an M96, and good luck finding an SC or Carrera that hasn't had or needs some form of engine work before 100k. Valve guides, pulled or snapped head studs, pistons contacting valves after a failed mechanical chain tensioner.......what else did I miss? For 1/2 the price of a Carrera oil-fed tensioner upgrade you can eliminate the one serious issue with the M96, that puts it in perspective pretty well for me. I'm not knocking the air-cooled cars, because I think all 911s are pretty special. But they all have potentially expensive issues and to argue otherwise is ill-informed. If you want Toyota reliability, you buy a Camry.

Depreciation is definitely a valid point, but it's also how you can get a fantastic car for very little money. As a counterpoint, I bought a nice driver 1970 911T for $4800 back in 2002. Only a few years ago you could buy a nice SC for $10k and a nice Carrera for $15k. In 20 years we might be lamenting all of the cheap 996s that we missed out on.

Yeah, we are like an old couple arguing over the same thing again and again.

If they are such awesome cars, why did you go through 5 (!) of them and kept none? The only 911 left appears to be one of those older ones!?

G

[Kaliv]

Thanks for all the great replies everyone. My dad has been following the thread and he said today that he'll probably put the "new" car on hold a bit longer and see what happens when the new Corvette Stingray comes out. Although I still think he should invest in a nice Porsche and then make it out to me in his will.

And in case you were curious...here's the Porsche he was eyeing the most.

1999 Porsche 911 Carrera C2 Geneva, New York | Geneva Foreign Sports

[sketchers356]

That Geneva 996 still seems pretty highly priced.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by aigel

Yeah, we are like an old couple arguing over the same thing again and again.

If they are such awesome cars, why did you go through 5 (!) of them and kept none? The only 911 left appears to be one of those older ones!?

G

Because I was able to make a tidy profit on each one. The 1988 will be for sale later this summer, I just haven't had much wrenching time as of late.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by sketchers356

That Geneva 996 still seems pretty highly priced.

I'd say by at least $5k, and I bet with a little looking you can find similar cars for $20k or less.

[KNS]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

We've had this argument before on the exact same topic. The cost to rebuild an air-cooled 911 motor is no less than that to rebuild an M96, and good luck finding an SC or Carrera that hasn't had or needs some form of engine work before 100k. Valve guides, pulled or snapped head studs, pistons contacting valves after a failed mechanical chain tensioner.......what else did I miss? For 1/2 the price of a Carrera oil-fed tensioner upgrade you can eliminate the one serious issue with the M96, that puts it in perspective pretty well for me. I'm not knocking the air-cooled cars, because I think all 911s are pretty special. But they all have potentially expensive issues and to argue otherwise is ill-informed. If you want Toyota reliability, you buy a Camry.

Depreciation is definitely a valid point, but it's also how you can get a fantastic car for very little money. As a counterpoint, I bought a nice driver 1970 911T for $4800 back in 2002. Only a few years ago you could buy a nice SC for $10k and a nice Carrera for $15k. In 20 years we might be lamenting all of the cheap 996s that we missed out on.

Agree on this last point. They'll never be worth the same as the air cooled cars but years from now if one wants a rear engine Porsche, they'll have to look at the 996 as an entry point because the air cooled cars will be unaffordable or squirrelled away because of their value. The 997 will probably be worth a bit more but the 996 will become a popular rear engine street or track car.

This is the best time to buy one.

[flskala]

When reading these 996 threads I can't help but think of some of the worst automotive steps back in history:

98 993 C4S - 99 C2
late 60's/early 70's camaro - late 70's/early 80's camaro
late 60's corvette - early 80's corvette
late 60's/early 70's mustang - mustang II (lol)

Most of them happened over time but I ask has there ever been a worse drop off in one year than the 911 from 98 to 99....?

Production numbers:

1995 911
14,647

1996 911
21,602

1997 911
15,972

1998 911 (993 & 996)
13,783

1999 911
28,040

2000 911
20,979

2001 911
27,275

2002 911
33,013

2003 911
29,547

2004 911
23,146


Pretty severe drop off.

Porsche 911 Production volumes

[speeder]

I think that he meant in terms of quality/performance based on his other examples, but I don't agree. The 996 and Boxster were a pretty major shift for Porsche to Japanese style production, (along with every other German automaker), and of course water cooling and other design changes.

The air-cooled platform was very limiting and pretty much reached its performance envelope in the 993 models, all of the newer Porsches will walk all over the air-cooled cars on a track with equal drivers. They do not go backwards with performance and engineering. The 993 was basically a constantly re-engineered 1963 car.