996 Advice / Pricing

[Kaliv]

My parents are corvette people...but yesterday they ask me advice on two different 996s (1999 C2 Cab & 2001 C4 Cab). They were thinking about trading in both their corvettes for a newer corvette, but either my constant funning around that porsches are better or that I got my dad to sit in a Panamera...he's looking at these two cars. I know almost nothing about the 996 other than I hear they can have bad IMS and RMS. The dealer says they are worth about $30k and prices them at $28k and $26k respectively. I'm thinking that 996s are worth more like $22k.

What says the pelican trust and any questions they should be asking? My parents just hit 60 and I'm unsure about mechanics in the area. They are not DIYers. Should I steer them away from that model?

[aigel]

No expert but that's way too much $$$ unless they have extremely low miles, say less than 10k!

I would steer them away and have them try to get into a newer one (997) with a CPO. Also look for a dealer that doesn't have crazy prices.

G

[onewhippedpuppy]

The 996 is a great car, but those prices sound high. Like George said, unless they are immaculate and silly low miles that is way too much money. You can pretty easily find pre-2002 996 for under $20k with a little shopping. I would also recommend buying from an individual unless you spend the bucks for a CPO, that way you can get service records and gauge the car's level of care. Like all Porsches, upkeep is everything.

[Zeke]

It's cavalier that you would promote the Porsche but the fact is they will get more for the buck driving Corvettes. One thing for sure, you won't have to convince them.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Zeke

It's cavalier that you would promote the Porsche but the fact is they will get more for the buck driving Corvettes. One thing for sure, you won't have to convince them.

Depends on the Corvette. The C5 and C6 can be great cars, but if they own C4s........meh.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Depends on the Corvette. The C5 and C6 can be great cars, but if they own C4s........meh.

They are trading for a 'newer' Corvette. And, I don't think a C4 is terrible. The first 2 years weren't a s good. But a C3, now that's a truck.

Surprising how these trucks are selling for the bigger money now. 10 years ago they were selling for scrap.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Zeke

They are trading for a 'newer' Corvette. And, I don't think a C4 is terrible. The first 2 years weren't a s good. But a C3, now that's a truck.

Surprising how these trucks are selling for the bigger money now. 10 years ago they were selling for scrap.

Yup, but they could be trading C5s for a C6 or C3s for a C4. You never know.

As for the older Corvette, I can't hardly stand to even sit in them. In my mind they stopped at the beautiful C2 then picked up again with the C5, which is a stupid amount of car for the money and the first Corvette in decades that didn't feel as it it was assembled with Elmer's glue.

[eastbay]

Have them or you look a craigslist ads in LA,CA or SF,CA to see real prices. You should not have to pay more thn $20k for a nice 996. Also, 996 values really go by the options on the car. Full leather, litronics, 18" wheels, lumbar, etc will drive price and make a big difference in how you will enjoy the car

[VincentVega]

C3 with a big block and a stiff clutch is the best.

20k for a 996... better be next to perfect with a recent engine.

Good luck

[911michael]

Since they are Corvette people, a newer version seems like the better, safer choice over the MK I 996. I am "911 people" and I prefer a nice C5/C6 over a 996.

If they have an itch to try a 996, suggest the MK II version, 2002-4. They come with a hp/torque bump (320 hp vs. 300), glove box (not in 99-01) and the cab comes with a glass rear window. 99-01 cabs had plastic rear window. I agree with the points about pricing and buying from someone who can show the service history on the car.

Having said that, consider a well sorted 993 if they really want to move into Porsche ownership. That's what I'd be shopping for if I didn't already own one.

[cashflyer]

Both of the 996s that you mentioned are MkI, and neither is worth the prices you mentioned.
You can find a nice MkII for around $22k. I would not buy a MkI.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by 911michael

If they have an itch to try a 996, suggest the MK II version, 2002-4. They come with a hp/torque bump (320 hp vs. 300), glove box (not in 99-01) and the cab comes with a glass rear window. 99-01 cabs had plastic rear window. I agree with the points about pricing and buying from someone who can show the service history on the car.

Having said that, consider a well sorted 993 if they really want to move into Porsche ownership. That's what I'd be shopping for if I didn't already own one.

The 996.2 also got a small increase in track width and suspension setup, a much nicer interior, the same headlights and bumper cut as the turbo, better looking tail lights, and a bunch of other stuff that I'm probably forgetting. I honestly didn't feel much of a power increase, the biggest upgrades in my book are the interior, glove box, nicer looking headlights, and glass convertible window.

The average non-Porsche person probably isn't going to appreciate why the 993 is priced significantly higher than the newer 996, which technically does most things better than the 993. I'm a Porsche person and even though I love the 993, I wouldn't pay the prices they seem to bring.

Originally Posted by cashflyer

You can find a nice MkII for around $22k. I would not buy a MkI.

I totally disagree with that statement. The 996.2 is a very nice car that is improved in many ways from the early cars, but I actually found my 996.1 to be a bit more fun. They are a little more raw, a little more rev happy, and overall just a bit more responsive. For me they refined some of the fun out of the 996. When you consider that you can buy a nice 996.1 for a price of a driver quality SC, in my mind it is a no-brainer.

[cashflyer]

I only said the *I* would not buy a MkI.
I like the MkII better.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

The 996 is a great car, but those prices sound high. Like George said, unless they are immaculate and silly low miles that is way too much money. You can pretty easily find pre-2002 996 for under $20k with a little shopping. I would also recommend buying from an individual unless you spend the bucks for a CPO, that way you can get service records and gauge the car's level of care. Like all Porsche, upkeep is everything.

^^^This!

I'm no expert on the different varieties of the 996 but when I dream surf autotrader for (cheap) Porsche's they come up in the $15K range all day long (private seller)

I know you are a Porsche guy and this is a Porsche board but...

Have they looked at the new Cadillac? If they are GM folks (like my folks) that might fit the bill.

Early 996's are fantastic cars. There is a rawness to them and you can find a pretty fantastic deal if you look around. I just bought this extremely clean 99 with 50K miles for mid teens.

[Steve Carlton]

What's the risk with the IMS (or whatever) and how does one mitigate it?

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

What's the risk with the IMS (or whatever) and how does one mitigate it?

That's one of those subject to opinion type things. The actual failure rate isn't that high (my subjective opinion) though it does happen. In my opinion it has been blown out of proportion by internet forums. I've had five M96 equipped cars, all with original IMS and RMS. No leaks, no issues. The guaranteed fix is to install the LN Engineering improved bearing that sells for $649 and is doable (engine out) by a good DIY mechanic.

As Matt says, there is a butt-load of conjecture about the 996 engine issues on web forums. As well as IMS, some early models suffer from cracks in heads and others from engine block cracks at cylinders. Before I bought mine, I talked with Hans Hoffman at RAC (formerly Ruf) about it. He was a service writer at a P dealer before RAC and runs service there now. He told me that he used to see a few 996's with IMS related bad engines, but none have come through his shop in quite a while. He also said he had seen more 3.6 problems than 3.4. There was an article in a British mag a couple years back that estimated (I think) about 5% of the 996's are affected. The 996 engine issues continue the Porsche tradition of an engine Achilles heel just as the 2.7, 3.0, 3.2, 964 and 993 all suffered.

LN/Raby, Pelican and Casper engineering all offer replacement bearings that can be fitted at clutch change time with a trans drop. Cost for clutch and LN is roughly $2500. That goes a long way to prop up the peace of mind for a lot of owners.

BTW - the first gen 997's have IMS issues as well.

[aigel]

Originally Posted by Mark Wilson

The 996 engine issues continue the Porsche tradition of an engine Achilles heel just as the 2.7, 3.0, 3.2, 964 and 993 all suffered.

Good point, but none of those engines blew components in the case, ending up with shards of metal into oiling system. Also, they were all rebuildable by a decent DIY mechanic. They also are not part of a rapidly depreciating car, where you practically total the vehicle with an engine failure.

The best way to avoid the whole mess is by buying a GT3 or a TT which have the good old case of the 993/964. I would recommend my parents to stretch into a TT or GT3 if they go for a 996.

G

Originally Posted by aigel

Good point, but none of those engines blew components in the case, ending up with shards of metal into oiling system. Also, they were all rebuildable by a decent DIY mechanic. They also are not part of a rapidly depreciating car, where you practically total the vehicle with an engine failure.

The best way to avoid the whole mess is by buying a GT3 or a TT which have the good old case of the 993/964. I would recommend my parents to stretch into a TT or GT3 if they go for a 996.

G

Agreed, but a bad engine is a bad engine. The 996 has an inexpensive fix that is DIY-able while many of the earlier problems require a rebuild. I love thje crap out of the 996 depreciation curve. It allows me to own a pretty amazing $95K car on the cheap. Bash away if you want, but it puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. I am in no way beating on any generation of 911, just attempting to set straight some of the 996 negative generalizations.

Nothing wrong with a TT or a GT3 if you have a $40 - $70K budget. My 99 with the "fix" comes in at under $20K and is reliable, beautiful and is very enjoyable to drive.