Attempted CraigsList Scam?

[widebody911]

I was browsing craiglist yesterday afternoon, and I came across another E46 M3 (2006 6MT ZCP!) that had just been listed. It looked really nice, and it was local, so I called the guy. Everything sounded great on the phone, so we agreed to meet at a shopping center about midway between us.

The car looked awesome. Very meticulously kept with only a couple of minor flaws, but overall, it was very, very nice and agonizingly clean. For example, there wasn't so much as a spec of brake dust on the calipers, rotors, or wheels - it all looked like it just came out of the box. My dinner plates probably aren't this clean. He really knew this car well, and pointed out a couple of small flaws and deviations from original that he thought I should be aware of. Nothing major, but it showed great attention to detail. I was seriously jumping on this one instead of the DY to which I had already committed.

Then things started to get weird. I say "lets take it for a drive!" and the guy says "OK, but I can't let you drive it."

Huh? Why? "Well, I've had some problems with that in the past" but with no further explanation.

So we drive around and bit, and the car sounds and feels great. I finally convince him to let me drive it, but he'll only let me do so in a mall parking lot. Um, Ok. So I drive it for a few minutes, and then he says "Ok, that should be enough."

Hmmm.

He drives back to the original shopping center and I try to engage him more about the car. I ask him why he won't let people drive it, and what happened in the past. He says "Well, I only have liability on it, I'm trying to save money" He goes on to tell me he saves $40/month by not having comp and collision on the car. Really? This is after he's gone on and on about all the recent maintenance he's had done: new water pump, hoses, belts, coil packs, valve cover gasket, (all of which which did look like was done) and how much he'd spent on mods.

I ask him about the title. He says "It's clean. I can text you the VIN if you want to run a carfax" Then I ask if the title is in his name. No, he has a loan on it. Ok, not the end of the world. I push on and ask what the process would be for transferring ownership if I wanted to buy it. This is where it got weird. He said that (quoting best as I can) "You just write me a check, then when it clears, I'll pay off the loan and tell the bank too transfer it to you." He launched into a monologue about the title laws in California, how California was a "no title" state so you didn't actually need to have to title to sell it" or some other such nonsense; I actually stated to tune it out after a while. I tell him "Ok, that sounds simple enough" Then he wants a $60 "smog deposit" Whaaa? "Yeah, in case you don't buy it, then I'm not out the cost of the smog check, unless you agree to do the smog yourself."

By this time I suspect either this guy is either really clueless, trying to scam me, or a combination of the two.

The first warning sign should have been the owner himself. A scrawny pale white kid dressed like a cross between a skater and a thug. When I saw "scrawny' I mean it. His knee and elbow joints stuck out like someone who just got out of a concentration camp.

Here's one of the pix from the ad. Notice in the lower-right corner it looks like a previous watermark was blocked out. However, as far as I can tell, this actually is indeed the same car I looked at.

So do you think this was an attempted scam setup, or did I run into a seller with Aspergers?

[Gogar]

I don't think it's necessarily a scam, but I wouldn't just write him a check. Call someone at the bank or go with him to the bank and do the payoff and title work with him etc.

If you write him a check he could deposit it and take off and leave you with a problem, even if you have the car.

[Por_sha911]

Tell him you'll write him a check if he will meet you at the bank lobby, show you a driver's license, and let you take his picture.

[widebody911]

One bit I forgot to add. This guy was possibly the worst driver I've ever ridden with (and I instructed for a few years). About as smooth as a milkshake made with broken glass, and the biggest traffic douchebag I've ever had the displeasure of riding with - ever. Cutting people off, absurd lane changes, riding people's bumpers - it's as if he learned to drive by playing Grand Theft Auto.

[cstreit]

I actually did buy a car where the seller used the funds to pay off the loan... ..but this was a RARE exception. I wouldn't do it unless you are at the bank and all the paperwork is done right in front of you.

[ossiblue]

Yeah, lot of weirdness in that. Here's my take:

Because the car is so clean, because he wouldn't let anyone drive it because of problems in the past, I'd suspect that it may have been wrecked by one of his "friends", repaired, and now up for sale. Carfax doesn't always have complete information about this. The guy appears to have little money as he wants up front cash for smog check, and has a loan on the car, and is scrimping on the insurance. Definitely, his plan for purchase (write a check to him, he pays off the loan, etc.) is a joke but may not be a scam.

Too many flags for me, but you may still be interested. If so, follow your instincts. The price better be very good because it doesn't sound like he's up to spending any money to help the sale. Given what you know, the car needs a through exam by an expert to see if there has been any significant damage or repair, along with a mechanical PPI. You need to see the registration documents to identify the lien holder and, of course, any payments should be done at the bank of the lien holder with him there, as mentioned before. If you do the above, it should be obvious you are serious and he should then have the car smogged and bring the completed paperwork to the bank on the day of payment/transfer.

Frankly, I think it's too much of a hassle, but it's your call. BTW, I think the blacked out area in the photo may be his way of blotting out the time stamp on the pic.

EDIT: You added the part about his driving while I was typing. Just makes me suggest that you absolutely have the car checked for damage.

[Steve Carlton]

You need to see the registration and deal with who's shown there. You need to be able to talk to the lienholder and make arrangements to FedEx them a cashier's check and confirm that the title will be sent to you and pay the owner the balance separately. I don't think this kid is the owner.

[widebody911]

Well, it looks like a really nice car, but I'm going to walk away this time.

[Steve Carlton]

Isn't there a way to google search the image?

[masraum]

If you have a loan on a car don't they usually require you too have full coverage?

I had a buddy selling a BMW get his car stolen while showing it once

The motor was running and the potential buyer jumped in the car and drove off

[Don Plumley]

With used cars, you buy the owner as much as the car. Run Forrest, Run.

[LakeCleElum]

Have him show you his Drivers license, the title and the registration. The title should list the bank as the Legal owner and him the registered owner.

If that matches, tell him you and he will go to the bank and you will pay off the loan directly to the bank. Don't agree to meet him somewhere with cash on you.

I've done it before this way, but I was dealing buying a motorcycle from a priest in a small town.

[dad911]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

Isn't there a way to google search the image?

Yes, Tinyeye and google both can search pics.


As to the rest, when I bought a truck long-distance with a loan, I wired money to bank that held title, I flew out, test drove, we met at bank, they payed off loan, gave him the balance, and gave me the title.

IMHO He is either clueless, or trying to sell his dad's car without dad knowing.....

[Steve Carlton]

A CA seller wouldn't have a title until the loan is paid off. The lender has it or it could be paperless.

Was the motorcycle unmolested?

[crustychief]

Originally Posted by dad911

..........

IMHO He is either clueless, or trying to sell his dad's car without dad knowing.....

He is probably using his dads car to get people to pony up the "smog fee"

[notmytarga]

Lots of possibilities to explain - here is mine:
1 -Not his car (you need to see the registration - for me in CA - the title gets mailed from the bank when the loan is complete or reissued by DMV after the bank releases their interest)
2 - Druggie - needs cash, weird sensory motor skills, wasted appearance, paranoid, meticulous cleaning (heck - most methheads are not this industrious with their sleepless days - I give him credit!
3 - uninformed - messed up understanding of process. Drugs, low intelligence or perhaps too much internet forum reading!

[Gogar]

Wow you guys have some wild imaginations, I'll give you that.

[BE911SC]

Yes, but this is a California deal and all of those theories are plausible.

(Not slamming CA living, I was born and raised there, 28 years.)

[trekkor]

I thought if you were making payments on a car, you had to have full insurance coverage?


KT

[stomachmonkey]

I thought if you were making payments on a car, you had to have full insurance coverage?





KT

Correct.