question for CWP holders

[HardDrive]

Originally Posted by petrolhead611

You seem to be looking for reasons to draw your guns.
And as for the creep who called me Pussy for not wanting to carry a gun, you are beneath contempt

Like I said in my original post, it is quite the opposite. I live in a nice area, and it is rare that I carry a gun. When I do feel its required, I certainly don't wander around looking for trouble.

I've hunted my entire life. I've watched large animals die. The choice to even display a gun is a deadly serious one. If I were to point a gun at a man and pull the trigger, it would be because I felt there was absolutely no other option to protect myself and my family. Even if I was in a state that did not require me to retreat, I would retreat to safety if that was an option. I'm not some blood thirsty nutter looking to take out his rage on others. Regardless if the person attacking you is criminal lunatic, the fact is, they have a mother, they have friends, they have siblings. If you kill them, they will experience terrible pain.

My position on the NYC/bikers scenario is unchanged, even in light of what I have said above. The gang chasing this man and his family had clearly shown they had violent intentions. If one of them chose to violate the space where my family was, I would kill him without hesitation. Thats not bravado, thats is simply how I would react.

[petrolhead611]

Killing someone for "violating your space" in England would earn you a life sentence in jail. Just saying.

[HardDrive]

Originally Posted by petrolhead611

Killing someone for "violating your space" in England would earn you a life sentence in jail. Just saying.

Killing someone for simply 'violating your space' would also land you in prison here as well. The biker used a weapon, his helmet, to smash the cars window. He had shown clearly that his intentions were to cause physical harm.

If you were walking down a street in Leeds, and someone attacked you with a cricket bat, would you be expected to simply stand there and be beaten? What if you took out a knife and stabbed the attacker, and he died? If the later would land you in prison, then I find that distasteful. I think the law should lean firmly on the rights of those that are law abiding, and firmly against those that chose to commit acts of violence.

As others have said, the media vastly distort the situation in the US. The extreme levels of violence and crime in a select few dense urban areas dramatically inflate the numbers. If you removed the criminal statistics from Detroit, Chicago and Philadelphia, the results would be markedly different. You can travel this country from coast to coast in perfect safety.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by petrolhead611

You seem to be looking for reasons to draw your guns.
And as for the creep who called me Pussy for not wanting to carry a gun, you are beneath contempt

I missed all this, were a bunch of posts deleted or something? You seem to be responding to a lot of things that have not been said.

Is it voices in your head, is that the problem?

[masraum]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

If you were walking down a street in Leeds, and someone attacked you with a cricket bat, would you be expected to simply stand there and be beaten? What if you took out a knife and stabbed the attacker, and he died? If the later would land you in prison, then I find that distasteful.

I'm not from the uk, or an expert on their laws, but based on the articles that I've read on the BBC website makes me believe that you would end up in jail. Carrying a knife is illegal in Britain. Yeah, I think you would be in jail for a long time.

As others have said, the media vastly distort the situation in the US. The extreme levels of violence and crime in a select few dense urban areas dramatically inflate the numbers. If you removed the criminal statistics from Detroit, Chicago and Philadelphia, the results would be markedly different. You can travel this country from coast to coast in perfect safety.

I read the BBC news website several days a week and I read about lots of violent crime, shootings, stabbings,deadly beatings, etc....

[targa911S]

In that situation, not in NYC, I would do nothing until the moment I was dragged out of the car. Then and only then would I feel I was in fear of my life and out of the car and about to be beaten. It's a life changing event right or wrong. A huge financial,emotional, and social event. I would have to be absolutely sure this guy was gonna kill or seriously injure me and my family before the gun would come out. If the gun comes out it will be used and most likely be emptied. Nobody really can answer this question until it happens. Gun ownership is a huge responsibility as well as a liability.

[SteamWolf]

most violent crime here and in the UK is between criminals, and rarely ever involves innocent bystanders. It's usually drug addict vs drug addict. 99% of the Sydney shootings are between middle-Eastern crime gangs or bikies (or both at once).

The baseline attitude is very different. I have been told here by members of PP that they feel safe because everyone has access to a hand gun and can use it as a threat against possible trouble.

To us here (and people I have met in the UK, Canada and in fact most other places I have visited that isn't the US) knowing that pretty much no-one has a hand gun about their person means I can be a lot more relaxed in daily life. It's a very different perspective, and one that is not compatible.

If someone waved a hand gun at me and I had one available, I would certainly be pulling mine out and things would undoubtedly escalate from there. Why anyone else with a hand gun would run away just because you produce yours seems a bit counter-intuitive.

I'm not being argumentative here, and I'm not claiming any moral high ground. Simply exploring the topic, because I do find the difference in general attitude quite interesting.

[SteamWolf]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

... and someone attacked you with a cricket bat

This never ever happens BTW. The handles break off cricket bats when you beat people with them. gotta use baseball bats, crow bars or lengths of gal pipe.

[petrolhead611]

The principle in the UK is that one can use no more than adequate force in self-defence, ie killing someone who attacks you with fists and feet(the usual street brawl here; not guns, not knives) would see you in jail.
As for this Tobra , he must be the one hearing voices or he simply is careless with his reading

[Rick V]

That is the law here as well with some exceptions. I am 6-4 200 lbs and if the average person came after me with just his hands I would more then likely do time for shooting him. Now my wife is 5-5 (we never ask so I don't know) and if a guy attacked her with just his hands she could shoot him and be exonerated of any wrong doing.
The use of deadly force is only allowed if there is an eminent threat of deadly force being used against you.
Some dude smashing at my window with a helmet is such a threat as soon as the glass has been broken out. At that point he dies, no questions asked.
You folks that live in the heavily restricted countries will never understand our way, and we will never get your way.
We will also never be disarmed

[petrolhead611]

Exactly-2 different cultures.

[Rick V]

The thing that I find interesting is when I have friends come to visit, who are from places where guns are outlawed or heavily regulated they all want to go to the range and shoot. Go figure.

[Rick Lee]

The threshold in most of the US is "if a reasonable person would believe that death or grave bodily harm is imminent." If in your own home or usually your car, you get the benefit of the doubt that you were in fear for your life, as long as you don't shoot a fleeing perp in the back. After all, anyone who breaks into an occupied home or vehicle should be assumed to be ready to kill you because they have to know you can legally kill them. Personally, I would not want to just wound or injure someone who was trying to kill me. In our ridiculous, litigious society, letting the cops hear the other guy's story can mean financial ruin for you, no matter how justified you were. It's best to make sure the cops only hear your side of the story.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by SteamWolf

most violent crime here and in the UK is between criminals, and rarely ever involves innocent bystanders. It's usually drug addict vs drug addict. 99% of the Sydney shootings are between middle-Eastern crime gangs or bikies (or both at once).

So just like it is here

Originally Posted by SteamWolf

To us here (and people I have met in the UK, Canada and in fact most other places I have visited that isn't the US) knowing that pretty much no-one has a hand gun about their person means I can be a lot more relaxed in daily life. It's a very different perspective, and one that is not compatible.

What do you guys do there to compel all criminals to follow the law regarding guns? If we could just get the bad guys to comply with the law the same way you do, it would solve a lot of problems.

Originally Posted by petrolhead611

The principle in the UK is that one can use no more than adequate force in self-defence, ie killing someone who attacks you with fists and feet(the usual street brawl here; not guns, not knives) would see you in jail.
As for this Tobra , he must be the one hearing voices or he simply is careless with his reading

Thank you for pointing out the comments you alleged were made. I will endeavor to improve my psychic abilities so I too can see things that are not there

You are right about one thing, it is two different cultures, Subject vs Citizen. We have top people working on that right now to make us more like you.

[targa911S]

" Officer, I would like to help you in the investigation of this crime against me, but I think I'm having a heart attack and I need you to call an ambulance to get me to the hospital right now"

[Rick V]

So I guess the rest of the world sees us like this.

[DonDavis]

This is on the back of a business card and is always with me when I carry.

[Tobra]

I like the card, will get one when I get my CCW permit

Originally Posted by Rick V

So I guess the rest of the world sees us like this.

Only the parts that don't know anything about the place.

[gacook]

Originally Posted by targa911S

In that situation, not in NYC, I would do nothing until the moment I was dragged out of the car. Then and only then would I feel I was in fear of my life and out of the car and about to be beaten. It's a life changing event right or wrong. A huge financial,emotional, and social event. I would have to be absolutely sure this guy was gonna kill or seriously injure me and my family before the gun would come out. If the gun comes out it will be used and most likely be emptied. Nobody really can answer this question until it happens. Gun ownership is a huge responsibility as well as a liability.

I dunno, Targa...if you allow it to get to the point of you being dragged out of the car (remember, he'd already been hit by that point), you're dazed. The odds of you being able to access your weapon have already gone down drastically, and if your attacker(s) already have their hands on you, odds are they can get to your weapon first. It is best to be preemptive (not necessarily saying shoot first, but just ensure it's out/available before their hands are on you).