question for CWP holders

[T77911S]

i have had my CWP for a while now and when i see or hear about violent situations, the reality of what i would do if it was me is a lot more real. so here is the question:

you all have seen the motorcycle incedent with the guy banging his helment on the window of the driver door. at that poiint, would you take action with your fire arm and what would it be?

[jyl]

Am I inside the vehicle or outside?

Inside: I do nothing until the guy is inside the car and both able and acting to hurt me or mine. He can beat my car all he wants, that is not imminent threat of serious bodily harm to me. When he crosses the line, shoot chest.

Outside: I do nothing (besides calling 911).

[id10t]

No permit - I work at a college, and the state exempted themselves from the "you can't stop an employee from keeping it in his car" law, so if I had one I'd never be able to actually carry.

That said, if I were in that situation, the SUV or MiniVan I'd be driving is a much better weapon - get on a cell phone, call cops, don't slow down below 20 or so.... give them bikes plenty of "get out of the way" time, but if they want to force the issue a motorcycle has *never* won a pissing match against a SUV/Mommobile

If hand held weapons appeared - hammer, helmets off the head, etc - and/or I were forced to stop and not able to move forward due to other 4 wheel vehicles then I'd draw and prepare to fire.

[mfiazzo]

If I were inside the car, I would pull the weapon out make sure he saw it and tell him to back off or I will shoot. If he continues to try and enter the vehicle, shoot him in the chest.

As the old saying goes, I would rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

[Rick Lee]

In AZ if someone is trying to forcibly enter an occupied car, it's called carjacking and you can legally kill them. If I saw it happen to someone else, I'd be a good witness. I'm not risking financial ruin or a prison sentence to help an unarmed stranger. Besides, unless you were involved in the incident from the beginnng, it'd be pretty hard to know who the victim is and who the aggressor is. Let the cops figure it out.

[onewhippedpuppy]

I agree with jyl. If you're in a car you have the advantage already. To those that mentioned brandishing their firearm as a threat, remember that you can be prosecuted for threatening the use of deadly force. Don't draw your weapon until you are prepared to use it.

[Rick Lee]

I agree with jyl. If you're in a car you have the advantage already. To those that mentioned brandishing their firearm as a threat, remember that you can be prosecuted for threatening the use of deadly force. Don't draw your weapon until you are prepared to use it.

If deadly force is legally justified, threatening it is as well. It's called defensive display here.

[DonDavis]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

It's called defensive display here.

Yup, and it's a recommended act if the situation allows.
However, things often happen very quickly and it's not required.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

If deadly force is legally justified, threatening it is as well. It's called defensive display here.

True, but if charged you will have to justify your action. Someone beating on the exterior of your car is definitely in the gray area of "life threatening".

[Rick V]

As soon as my window gets taken out, so does the guy doing it. He has crossed into my vehicles interior and he was using a helmet to do the job. That helmet is a weapon.
Thing is they would have to get me to stop first, and like others have said, if I get boxed in, like what happened to the RR, the reverse lights are enough of an indicator of my intentions.

[DonDavis]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Someone beating on the exterior of your car is definitely in the gray area of "life threatening".

I see your point and it would be argued.

Let me ask you this... use the scenario of the SUV/bikers and the guy is using his helmet to bash the driver's window, in your opinion would the driver be justified using defensive display?

I would say absolutely justified.

Now consider this sceneario completely different that the SUV/bikers. Just a guy in sitting in traffic...
SUV is stopped in traffic and a pedestrian jaywalks between the vehicles to cross the road. Pedestrian is in front of the SUV and makes eye contact with driver. Pedestrian takes the look the wrong way and slaps the hood.

I would say not justified at that point.

Lets say the driver then hits the horn and yells "Knock it off and move on!"

But then the pedestrian goes to the drivers door and yanks on the handle while slapping the window. Now the driver would be justified in defensive display, imho.

[T77911S]

do any of you ever imagine yourself in that situation and the reality of taking a life?
i have a lot more respect for police since they are more likely to be put in that situation.
they say there was an undercover off duty cop there that did nothing. i wonder what it would have taken for him to act.
you have to wonder if you shot him, how many in that group might have a gun. then what?

its hard for me to carry as i can not even have a gun in my car at work.

[Rick V]

Originally Posted by T77911S

do any of you ever imagine yourself in that situation and the reality of taking a life?

That is a question that people need to ask before they make the final decision of carrying a gun. It is a sobering reality of responsibility.
I am calmer and more in control when I have a gun, something in my brain "clicks" and the realization of the potential is profound.
When I am unarmed I am much more likely to go off on someone.

[HardDrive]

Yup.

With my wife and kid in the car, it would be hard to show restraint. I never, ever cause confrontations, but I do NOT like people threatening me. You threaten the safety of my wife and my daughter? Sorry a-hole. The last thing your going to see is a pissed off papa bear and muzzle flash.

If there was a real threat, legal consequences be damned. Thats what defense lawyers are for.

Originally Posted by Rick V

As soon as my window gets taken out, so does the guy doing it. He has crossed into my vehicles interior and he was using a helmet to do the job. That helmet is a weapon.
Thing is they would have to get me to stop first, and like others have said, if I get boxed in, like what happened to the RR, the reverse lights are enough of an indicator of my intentions.

[T77911S]

Originally Posted by mfiazzo

If I were inside the car, I would pull the weapon out make sure he saw it and tell him to back off or I will shoot. If he continues to try and enter the vehicle, shoot him in the chest.

.

this is what i thought.
gun pointed at him, "if you continue, i will shoot".
once the glass is gone, he is too. i still think it would be very hard to pull the trigger, even then. it will be life changing for many.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by DonDavis

I see your point and it would be argued.

Let me ask you this... use the scenario of the SUV/bikers and the guy is using his helmet to bash the driver's window, in your opinion would the driver be justified using defensive display?

I would say absolutely justified.

Now consider this sceneario completely different that the SUV/bikers. Just a guy in sitting in traffic...
SUV is stopped in traffic and a pedestrian jaywalks between the vehicles to cross the road. Pedestrian is in front of the SUV and makes eye contact with driver. Pedestrian takes the look the wrong way and slaps the hood.

I would say not justified at that point.

Lets say the driver then hits the horn and yells "Knock it off and move on!"

But then the pedestrian goes to the drivers door and yanks on the handle while slapping the window. Now the driver would be justified in defensive display, imho.

I didn't see the video, I recall it being posted here but didn't watch. If someone forced their way into my car then any show of restraint would be over. As Rick said, at that point it is carjacking and I have the right to defend myself by any means necessary.

[widgeon13]

Keep in mind the law in NYC is different from the rest of the state. If he had a pistol and pulled w/o appropriate 5 borough permit he would be screwed.

Outside of the boroughs he still needs a permit for pistol which also serves as CCW in New York.

Very difficult to get permit for the city, you need to show cause.

[Rick V]

You mean the threat of simply being out in public with a bunch of animals like the bikers is not enough cause?

[9dreizig]

Originally Posted by widgeon13

Keep in mind the law in NYC is different from the rest of the state. If he had a pistol and pulled w/o appropriate 5 borough permit he would be screwed.

Outside of the boroughs he still needs a permit for pistol which also serves as CCW in New York.

Very difficult to get permit for the city, you need to show cause.

I really don't understand why the NRA hasn't sued the city over that law??

[widgeon13]

You'd think so. It's NYC, unfortunately different rules. Doesn't Make sense to me either.