Getting a PPI doesn't seem realistic or possible.

[Laneco]

They must be pretty easy to work on, because I work on them.

There are plenty of jobs that I consider out of my league. Example, I needed a top-end on an engine done. I pulled it, removed the intake, fan, etc., and drug it up to John Walker who did the top-end (head studs to be precise, mostly clean/inspect the remaining parts). Why did I take it to a Porsche mechanic instead of Cletus? Because Cletus charges $80 and does not know what is "good enough", or "soon to fail" or "fixed as a preventative measure" on a 911. That's what makes a Porsche mechanic worth $100 as I'm paying for the expertise to know the difference. When I got the engine back from John Walker, I had cleaned/detailed everything, I reassembled, threw a new clutch in, and reinstalled it. Actually, I need help putting them back in. We reinstall with a motorcycle jack and whereas Steve is strong enough for that last little finesse-wrestling, I'm not. With two of us, it's a piece of cake to reinstall.

Seems like you are looking for a 3.2 car. The a/c compressor is big and hides a lot of the passenger side engine. The driver's side REALLY opens up when you pull off the blower motor and assembly - which is easy. Plugs, wires, oil changes, fuel filter, etc., - all pretty easy with the engine in the car. These are durable and high quality motor vehicles. If maintenance items (e.g. tune-up, old fuel lines, etc) are addressed, they run very reliably. Not something you have to tinker-fart-around with all the time. In fact, for a 30 or 40 year old car, they are simply BRILLIANTLY reliable. I used mine for business and drove it all over the west coast a few years ago. Aside from a flaky voltage regulator - it never once gave me trouble and has NEVER let me down. Even the voltage regulator got me home.

I realize this was long winded, sorry about that. The right car and the right SELLER will come along. Be patient and then enjoy the ride.

angela

[RANDY P]

HA!

No AC, no blower motor and backdated HEAT! All you need is rain-x for the inside of the windshield. It's all good.

[Embraer]

Originally Posted by RANDY P

Have you ever owned a VW bug? If so, you have the same basic idea.

These cars aren't a PITA like a Ferrari. There's no belts, no engine out tune ups, no 5 valve per cylinder head to fall apart.

yep...miss that aspect of the 911.

here's what a $10K regular service gets you in the Ferrari world....

[Embraer]

the simple solution: don't get a 911.

get a bullitt mustang.

[porsche4life]

Bahahah!!!!! You nailed it mike!

[onewhippedpuppy]

Well setup 944?

[Embraer]

...has to be well-setup. gotta make sure the timing belt, waterpump and clutch are done

[RANDY P]

Originally Posted by Embraer

yep...miss that aspect of the 911.

here's what a $10K regular service gets you in the Ferrari world....

That EXACTLY right there is one of the main reasons I won't buy one. I love the F355, the lines, but the heads (valve guide probs) and the costs of the engine out scare the crap out of me.

Too rich for my blood, way too rich.

rjp

[Embraer]

if you're ever in LA, you can drive mine whenever you want.

(ive the sintered steel valve job done, replaced the headers (at 26K miles))

hill engineering throwout bearing upgrade. tons of work done.


that $10K was rebuilt waterpump, rebuilt alternator, timing belts and tensioners, cam seals, fuel filters, and....that's about it. Normal 30K service stuff. oh yeah, they repainted the valve covers with hi temp crinkle paint. HA.

[RANDY P]

Originally Posted by Embraer

if you're ever in LA, you can drive mine whenever you want.

(ive the sintered steel valve job done, replaced the headers (at 26K miles))

hill engineering throwout bearing upgrade. tons of work done.


that $10K was rebuilt waterpump, rebuilt alternator, timing belts and tensioners, cam seals, fuel filters, and....that's about it. Normal 30K service stuff. oh yeah, they repainted the valve covers with hi temp crinkle paint. HA.

yeeah! Thanks!

You might not get it back tho!

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Embraer

if you're ever in LA, you can drive mine whenever you want.

(ive the sintered steel valve job done, replaced the headers (at 26K miles))

hill engineering throwout bearing upgrade. tons of work done.


that $10K was rebuilt waterpump, rebuilt alternator, timing belts and tensioners, cam seals, fuel filters, and....that's about it. Normal 30K service stuff. oh yeah, they repainted the valve covers with hi temp crinkle paint. HA.

If you had a lift, do you think it would be that hard to work on? I know F-car parts will always be expensive (I owned a Maserati coupe), but the engine out requirement always seemed like the biggest issue for a DIYer. At least until you get new enough that everything has an ECU and you have to deal with F1 clutch replacements.

[Rot 911]

Originally Posted by Baz

PPI's are for cars with such a high selling price....they are going to sit a little while.
Those kind of cars and buyers you can sometimes get the PPI done for.
Other cars are priced to sell quickly. Those cars can be evaluated yourself or with the assistance of a Porsche-knowledgeable friend or acquaintance.

This.

The days of a seller sitting around while you arrange a PPI are over. At least for the average 911 that is reasonably priced.

I recently sold my '86. Only place I posted it was here on the classifieds. Had 6 serious offers. Sold within 2 hours. Now I will say I was right at the bottom edge of market value and I had receipts from day 1 and had lots of pictures.

I had one serious buyer that wanted me to get a PPI done on the car, but why should I when I had too many other willing buyers?

[Steve Carlton]

Maybe let us know what you're looking for and somebody will know of a car and it can be vetted and PPI'd. Maybe you'll have to fly somewhere to pick it up or have it trucked.

The car I bought was on eBay and didn't meet reserve, so I had time to deal with the seller. The history and story behind the car was very strong, so I had it PPI'd and checked out by a body shop. I used the shop it had been going to, which had a risk/reward aspect to it. Had the car trucked from Colorado to SF. The car is stellar, but still had to do some repairs to make it A1 and reliable. Luckily, the market is rising on the Carreras, but I think you usually wind up above market by the time you make a car perfect.

I think it's wiser to pay top-dollar for a top quality car. These things can eat you alive if you roll the dice and lose.

[Embraer]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

If you had a lift, do you think it would be that hard to work on? I know F-car parts will always be expensive (I owned a Maserati coupe), but the engine out requirement always seemed like the biggest issue for a DIYer. At least until you get new enough that everything has an ECU and you have to deal with F1 clutch replacements.

Matt, without a doubt I could have done the work myself. This car is exceptionally EASY to work on. it's crude, and engineered very simply. There are 6 bolts that hold that entire rear subframe on.

Taking the rear bumper off takes about 20 minutes. Ive done lots of little things on this car, and frankly...it's a joy to work on.

Here in LA, I don't have my shop like back home. Also...I wasn't sure if I was going to keep the car when I bought it. I picked it up for a song. Thinking of wanting to sell it, the Ferrari guys are insane about records. Not only that the major service was done...but WHO did it. It's that big of a deal to them.

I paid a premium to have the service done. They photodocument everything, create a CD disc with hundreds of pictures. Write a report on everything that's done, etc. ...So when I would be ready to sell, I had confirmation that the compression, leakdown, work completed, etc were all perfect.



That being said...now that I will keep the car, I will certainly do my own major service next time it's due (about 5 years from now). That parts will run about 2K. It kills resale value, but if you don't plan to sell the car, who cares.

OH...edit...mine's gated. If it had the F1 tranny, it would be a lot tougher. They require programming that can only be done at a service center with an $$$$ computer system.

[Don Plumley]

You have a real problem separating the wheat from the chaff in the NYC region - lots of older cars bought for prestige and not by enthusiasts. So I'd avoid eBay like the plague, and stick to PCA or Pelican/Rennlist classifieds. Yes, you'll pay a bit more, but probably save a lot more in the long run.

My first 911 ('87 Carrera) I was determined to get a PPI. The owner had every receipt and reading them for 10 minutes it was clear he spared no expense to take care of the car. Every box in the garage had a dymo label on it. I asked about scheduling a PPI, he said, "There are 10 people trying to come tomorrow starting at 8AM." I bought it right then and there in the dark. Perfect car.

My next was the 993 track beast. I knew it was a salvage title car, so a PPI was essential. Took it to a local shop to confirm body straight, engine solid. Done. Nothing else mattered since I was rebuilding suspension and gutting the interior.

You need just a quick PPI to look at headstuds, leakdown, even just change the oil for the guy, just to eliminate an immediate, obvious problem. Then after that it's just mechanical odds which sometimes work in your favor and sometimes don't.

You don't buy a car as buy as you buy the seller. As a much younger guy, I went to by a used Saab 900 from a private party. As we were doing the deal, all my alarms went off. He was shifty, just didn't feel right - but being young, impatient, just "having to buy that car" I ignored common sense and bought it. Mistake - that I've never made again.

[PushingMyLuck]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

Luckily, the market is rising on the Carreras, but I think you usually wind up above market by the time you make a car perfect.

Good post except I disagree with this. You are just fortunate to have bought during a rising tide.

You could just as easily poured $25k in your car to "make it perfect" and be looking at a $15k total value. (Ask any 60's muscle car restorer)
In fact, I think the best way to lose a TON of money is to make a classic car "perfect".
I view a hobby car as an expensive hobby. If you're lucky enough to break even, it's just that: Luck. B/c the market rose while you owned. Like a house.
Know anyone who plowed $100k into their $300k house, only to see the value drop to $200k? Every penny of their renovation budget was flushed down the toilet.

[PushingMyLuck]

Originally Posted by Don Plumley

You have a real problem separating the wheat from the chaff in the NYC region - lots of older cars bought for prestige and not by enthusiasts. So I'd avoid eBay like the plague, and stick to PCA or Pelican/Rennlist classifieds. Yes, you'll pay a bit more, but probably save a lot more in the long run.

Don, interesting point about NYC cars.

I'm in no hurry and appreciate the wisdom here. I know the ideal mature PCA seller when I see one, and already have come across one. When the time is right, I will pull the trigger.

Winter approaching gives me a few months to take my time. Unless I find something exceptional, there's no point in buying something only to immediately put it into storage for 5 months.

Enjoying the process, and learning about the cars.

[Vipergrün]

Originally Posted by PushingMyLuck

Don, interesting point about NYC cars.

I'm in no hurry and appreciate the wisdom here. I know the ideal mature PCA seller when I see one, and already have come across one. When the time is right, I will pull the trigger.

Winter approaching gives me a few months to take my time. Unless I find something exceptional, there's no point in buying something only to immediately put it into storage for 5 months.

Enjoying the process, and learning about the cars.

What a shame...looking for the perfect 911 to store in your garage 1/2 the year?

Or you could drive a reliable Camry year round....

Final thought; just because a car passes a PPI doesn't mean issues will not arise. It's not a guarantee, it's a point in time inspection. Heck, you could float the valve train on a missed shift during the drive home. Receipts tell the story. As do oil spots on the floor, smoking exhaust, etc....

[Steve Carlton]

Originally Posted by PushingMyLuck

Good post except I disagree with this. You are just fortunate to have bought during a rising tide.

You could just as easily poured $25k in your car to "make it perfect" and be looking at a $15k total value. (Ask any 60's muscle car restorer)
In fact, I think the best way to lose a TON of money is to make a classic car "perfect".
I view a hobby car as an expensive hobby. If you're lucky enough to break even, it's just that: Luck. B/c the market rose while you owned. Like a house.
Know anyone who plowed $100k into their $300k house, only to see the value drop to $200k? Every penny of their renovation budget was flushed down the toilet.

I get the impression you didn't really read my post.
- you have no idea what I paid for the car or what I spent on it. I was at the top of the market, but these things have been rising for years and anyone can see the value in them. The only thing I had to do was the alternator. I did the battery, fuel pump, and relay to be pro-active and have a more reliable car. I replaced the clutch because it would sometimes chatter a bit and it turns out it was pretty worn out at 53K miles. I don't think I'm going to lose a TON of money.
- I didn't buy my car as an investment, but I think it'll cost less to own than a normal $30K car. I don't think it'll drop to half of what I have in it.
- I think there's more than luck involved when you evaluate the market and make a purchase that makes sense. I think there's lots of 911s going for overheated money right now and lots of them that represent solid value.
- if one is buying and renovating a house and doesn't overdo it, there's nothing wrong with that unless one needs to sell it right away. Even then, if one buys another house at the same time they sell one, they should be getting a great bargain like they just gave away. "All ships rise and fall with the tide" to a large extent. If you stay in the house, it will eventually recover. Like the stock market. Living in a house long-term doesn't have much to do with a period of having a paper loss.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Embraer

Matt, without a doubt I could have done the work myself. This car is exceptionally EASY to work on. it's crude, and engineered very simply. There are 6 bolts that hold that entire rear subframe on.

Taking the rear bumper off takes about 20 minutes. Ive done lots of little things on this car, and frankly...it's a joy to work on.

Here in LA, I don't have my shop like back home. Also...I wasn't sure if I was going to keep the car when I bought it. I picked it up for a song. Thinking of wanting to sell it, the Ferrari guys are insane about records. Not only that the major service was done...but WHO did it. It's that big of a deal to them.

I paid a premium to have the service done. They photodocument everything, create a CD disc with hundreds of pictures. Write a report on everything that's done, etc. ...So when I would be ready to sell, I had confirmation that the compression, leakdown, work completed, etc were all perfect.



That being said...now that I will keep the car, I will certainly do my own major service next time it's due (about 5 years from now). That parts will run about 2K. It kills resale value, but if you don't plan to sell the car, who cares.

OH...edit...mine's gated. If it had the F1 tranny, it would be a lot tougher. They require programming that can only be done at a service center with an $$$$ computer system.

I've read that before regarding most F-car guys being shop snobs. I suspect that considering how many open checkbook owners are out there, DIY info probably isn't nearly as readily available as in the Porsche community. That's one of the best things about owning a Porsche, just about any issue can be solved by a simple forum post.

The F1 gearbox ruined my Maserati, you chose well. Clunky around town, short clutch life, and the clutch replacement required the proprietary computer for calibrations. No thanks.