Florida pilot reports passenger fell into ocean, FAA says!!!

[A930Rocket]

Sounds fishy to me...

Florida pilot reports passenger fell into ocean, FAA says

Published November 14, 2013Associated Press

Nov. 14, 2013: A passenger fell out of this Piper PA 46 aircraft, which is shown at the Kendall-Tamiami Executive Airport in Miami. (WSVN)
MIAMI – Rescue crews searched an area southeast of Miami after a pilot reported to the Federal Aviation Administration that a passenger fell out of his small plane into the ocean Thursday.

FAA spokeswoman Kathleen Bergen says the call came at 1:30 p.m. Thursday from the pilot of a Piper PA 46 aircraft. The plane was flying at about 2,000 feet when the call came in, she said.

Coast Guard and Miami-Dade Fire Rescue air and water units were searching an area about eight miles southeast of Tamiami Executive Airport, south of Miami, where the plane safely landed. It wasn't immediately clear where the flight originated or how many people were on board.

According to a recording on the website LiveATC.Net, the unidentified pilot calmly radioed "mayday, mayday, mayday," and told an air traffic controller a door was ajar.

"I have a door ajar and a passenger that fell down. I'm six miles from Tamiami," the pilot says.

"You said you've got a passenger that fell out of your plane?" the air traffic controller responds.

"That's correct, sir," the pilot responded. "He opened the back door and he just fell out the plane."

LiveATC.Net provides live air traffic-control broadcasts from control towers and radar facilities around the world.

Both the Coast Guard and fire rescue officials said they hadn't confirmed whether the pilot's emergency call was legitimate. The Miami-Dade Police Department sent homicide detectives to the airport to further investigate, said spokesman Javier Baez. Police have not indicated any evidence of foul play, however.

"We're still gathering as many facts as we can," Baez said.

The Coast Guard had a small boat and a helicopter involved in the search, but Petty Officer Jon-Paul Rios said they stopped searching about 7 p.m. when it got too dark.

The fire rescue agency had three marine units and two aircraft, said Lt. Arnold Piedrahita, a fire rescue spokesman. It wasn't immediately clear whether they were still searching or when they planned to stop for the night.

According to an email from FAA spokeswoman Bergen, the pilot radioed air traffic controllers at Miami Terminal Radar Approach Control, which provides radar for flights within a 55-mile radius of Miami International Airport. The control center then notified the Coast Guard.

Bergen said in an email late Thursday that she had no new information.

[Noah930]

I read this earlier today and wondered how possible/likely this could happen. Would the wind pressure against the door allow someone just to "fall out?" I'm not talking about someone hell bent on jumping out of the plane, but rather if a door became unlatched, would air pressure push the door into the cabin, making it more difficult to open it (at speed)? Or is there some sort of low pressure phenomenon that actually sucks the door open because of the wind rushing over it? And how easy is it for an adult to accidentally fall out a door, even if it were unlatched?

[slodave]

Originally Posted by Noah930

I read this earlier today and wondered how possible/likely this could happen. Would the wind pressure against the door allow someone just to "fall out?" I'm not talking about someone hell bent on jumping out of the plane, but rather if a door became unlatched, would air pressure push the door into the cabin, making it more difficult to open it (at speed)? Or is there some sort of low pressure phenomenon that actually sucks the door open because of the wind rushing over it?

No, it's easy to push the door open in a small plane. Also, if the picture of the plane I saw is the one, the doors opened up and down.

I was training in a Cessna that had a door latch problem. My instructor was going to show me a maneuver that required a tight left turn - I was in the pilots seat - the door pooped open right as he entered the turn. Even though I was wearing a seat belt, I moved to my right and got a little close with my instructor for the rest of the turn.

As for the motive... There was a guy that chartered a heli about two weeks ago and jumped to his death.

[speeder]

I would think that there would not be any significant pressure issues at that altitude and speed.

[rattlsnak]

Its actually common for doors to pop open in flight in small airplanes, it is nearly impossible to close them though. Have had it happen to me a few times. Have to land somewhere to fully close it.. although it seems to usually happen right after takeoff with the pressure change.

[Heel n Toe]

So the seat belt light was off?



It's a sort of fishy-sounding story. It will be investigated thoroughly and it could end up that it was suicide. Or homicide.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Low pressure is created over the fuselage which tends to want to suck the doors open. Opening them is easy. Closing them once they've popped, not so much. Airplane doors sometimes have an additional "catch" to keep the doors from opening too far and theoretically catching anyone/anything from falling out, but they're not foolproof. Most Cessnas I've seen only have one latch and if it pops you usually have to wait until landing to get it all the way shut again. Very difficult to re-seat them in flight.

[widgeon13]

That's a clam shell door and could have opened in flight, then the passenger tries to get up and close it and falls out, seems legit.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Really strange. The PA-46 is a high performance single engined plane, named the Meridian (turboprop and pressurized), Mirage (turbo piston and pressurized), and Matrix (turbo piston). They are a cabin class airplane, which means that the airplane has a single airstair style door that enters into the cabin, like most business jets. If pressurized then the door is likely impossible to open in flight, as it would cause a rapid loss of cabin pressure. The unpressurized version might be possible but difficult to open, but it's not the sort of door that just pops open like in a smaller piston plane.

[cashflyer]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Really strange. The PA-46 is a high performance single engined plane, named the Meridian (turboprop and pressurized), Mirage (turbo piston and pressurized), and Matrix (turbo piston). They are a cabin class airplane, which means that the airplane has a single airstair style door that enters into the cabin, like most business jets. If pressurized then the door is likely impossible to open in flight, as it would cause a rapid loss of cabin pressure. The unpressurized version might be possible but difficult to open, but it's not the sort of door that just pops open like in a smaller piston plane.

I agree with this.


The doors do not operate like a Cessna 150/172 style door, and Cessna is the type that most people have familiarity with popping open during certain maneuvers.

The PA-46 clamshell door has pins that extend forward and aft into the fuselage. Somebody had to physically open that door, or else it was never properly closed.

[URY914]

Was it the pilot's wife?

[tcar]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

If pressurized then the door is likely impossible to open in flight, as it would cause a rapid loss of cabin pressure. The unpressurized version might be possible but difficult to open, but it's not the sort of door that just pops open like in a smaller piston plane.

Correct, but, Pressurization is not an issue at 1,800 feet above sea level.

[Radioactive]

It reminds me of the guy that owed a lot of money to investors and tried to fake his death..

Man gets 4 years for crashing plane, trying to fake death - CNN.com

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by tcar

Correct, but, Pressurization is not an issue at 1,800 feet above sea level.

True, but normally pressurized airplanes have safeguards in place that make it nearly impossible to open the door in flight. Even though the airplane doesn't have to be pressurized at 1800 ft, most cabins are pressurized to a low level prior to takeoff.

[slodave]

I've actually never had a problem closing a Cessna door mid flight. Could be because the window is always flapping in the breeze...

[onewhippedpuppy]

The Bonanza/Baron is also well known for the "involuntary fresh air" option, though I don't recall it ever happening in my grandfather's V35. It just pops open and stays about a 1/2" cracked throughout the flight, except for being noisy it's harmless.

[tcar]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

True, but normally pressurized airplanes have safeguards in place that make it nearly impossible to open the door in flight. Even though the airplane doesn't have to be pressurized at 1800 ft, most cabins are pressurized to a low level prior to takeoff.

Don't think that's true... hell, my house is 3,000 feet higher than that plane was.


And there is no doubt that that door was opened. It was open when it landed.

[J P Stein]

I read that they've found the body.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by tcar

Don't think that's true... hell, my house is 3,000 feet higher than that plane was.


And there is no doubt that that door was opened. It was open when it landed.

I'm an aerospace engineer that works for an airplane manufacturer, it's true. Typically airplanes minimally pressurize on the ground prior to takeoff, it's the most comfortable for the passengers because it limits rapid changes in cabin altitude. It is also how the system is designed to work. As for the door, there are typically locks or pins that prevent the door from being opened while pressurized. It's the same concept as an airplane emergency window, they only remove to the inside of the airplane so you can't remove it when pressurized. The pilot can manually shut off the pressurization system, at which point all bets are off. Note that I also mentioned that there are three models of this plane, one of which is not pressurized.

[Jrboulder]

This is a small plane certified under part 23 in the early 80's, not some new jet.