Pipes are Frozen. Now What?

[911_Dude]

I stopped by my rental, that is vacant, yesterday (tue) to check on it. Last time I was there was Sunday, just before the deep freeze. The furnace crapped out sometime during the sub-zero weather and now the house if frozen solid. It had been set at 50 deg.

I turned off the water and opend the 2 valves that would drain. There were no leaks that I could see. Furnace guy is comming over this morning to get that going. It is a 100 year old house with copper on the first floor and pex on the second floor. Should I just warm up the house for a few days and then turn the water on and monitor, or is there some old plumbers trick to reviving a frozen house?

Thanks in adavance!

[GH85Carrera]

Good luck.

So with no heat the entire house was really down to below freezing for an extended time. That is gonna suck. You may be replacing all the copper pipe. The pex should be OK.

Keep the water off at the meter and open all the faucets. Warm the place up and start hunting leaks.

[mfiazzo]

Agree with GH85. Keep the water off until the house comes up to temp. Bring two helpers with you, send one to the second floor and one to the first. turn the water valve on slowly and have your helpers listen for leaks (gushing water). Keep and eye on the gauge to see how fast it is spinning. It will go fast at first until the pipes fill back up, but then should stop if no leaks.

[johnsjmc]

I had something similar in a rental 4 unit I owned about 25 yrs ago. That building had separate unit electric heat. I got a call from an upstairs tenant that the water was off. turned out tenant below had gone on vacation and left a window open with heat turned off. The cold snap arrived and pipes froze between units.
Turn off the main ,warm the building up and when you turn it back on listen for too much or any flowing .
Then when the system is pressurized go around and look for leaks. I would expect a leak or two given the copper lines. You could get a small drip or a fitting could have blown off completely with a huge leak as a result.
In my case with the 4 plex. water came back on to the upper apartment while I was there. BUT I could hear water running somewhere.
I went back in to the lower unit just as the ceiling fell down weighted by a few hundred gallons.
Hope you only have a couple small leaks and can get at them easily . I had insurance so the big flood damage was covered.
Read your policy and see how often you are required to inspect a vacant building BEFORE you call them if you need to. My policy says no more than 7 days when vacant but my daughters house policy says every 72 hrs.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Many years ago I did maintenance for a mobile home park, this happened a lot because many older mobile homes are poorly insulated underneath. The PEX might be ok, I've seen it swell significantly then return to normal shape with no leaks. I strongly suspect you will have leaks with the copper. As the other guys said, thaw the place out then turn the water on slowly with multiple people watching for leaks. Make sure you have someone at the valve to shut it off quickly as leaks are found. You will likely chase leaks for a while, i.e. you fix one and find the next one. It sucks, good luck!

Edit: one more thought, if you find multiple leaks it might be easier in the long run to just replumb the entire place. Otherwise you could be chasing leaks (and risking future water damage) for a long time.

[vonsmog]

There is a way to hook up a welder to the copper pipes and thaw out the pipes if you are in a hurry. I don't remember how, but I'm sure you can google on how to do it.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by vonsmog

There is a way to hook up a welder to the copper pipes and thaw out the pipes if you are in a hurry. I don't remember how, but I'm sure you can google on how to do it.

Right now the pipes are swollen with ice. If he allows them to slowly thaw, some may return to the original shape without leaks. I encountered people that did the welder trick and ended up replacing all of the plumbing in the house. Plus it won't work on the PEX (plastic) stuff.

[TheMentat]

You will probably have a few leaks at the joints on copper. Surprisingly, he tubing is often ok for 1 freeze... It's the second freezing that stretches the tubing further that really messss things up!

Good luck!

[notmytarga]

My brother has a cabin that had a bad design were water pipes ran through an uninsulated section above a porch. Fixed now, but it was interesting keeping the water flowing when we visited.

Of note is that the water meter may have an indicator of very small flow rates. Surely listen for leaks and all - but looking to see if that triangle on the face of the gauge is moving at all will stop hidden water collections.

This would be my plan to avoid further damage.
- Keep the water off at the meter until the weather changes or water is needed in the vacant house.
- When opening the main valve for the first time shut it back off after 10 secs or when flow stops if it seems to be slowing down as things purge.
- After shutting the valve, wait a few minutes and see if you still have pressure.
- If you have pressure, incrementally purge the system of air - never leaving the valve open for long. Toilets, appliances, sinks - get all the air out. Use a few helpers - cellphones etc.
- Once it is all flushed and purged - that triangular gauge indicator will tell you if there is a leak that you would never see or hear - trust it. If it moves then water is flowing. It might be your purging or it could be a leak. The other test is to close all the valves for a time and see how much pressure stays in the system. The best test could be done before purging - Use an air compressor or bike pump to pressurize the system to 15-30 PSI at first and a pressure gauge to watch the pressure level fall or hold steady. Air means no water damage. My local ACE sells a fitting that has a Schrader (bicycle pump) valve and gauge on a 1/2 inch FPT or hose thread fitting that can be placed on a hose bib. All plumbing installations are tested like this - if done right.

But you will want to directly inspect the most susceptible plumbing and replace if damaged. Good luck.

I am not a plumber - but I play one on the occasional weekend.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by notmytarga

The best test could be done before purging - Use an air compressor or bike pump to pressurize the system to 15-30 PSI at first and a pressure gauge to watch the pressure level fall or hold steady. Air means no water damage. My local ACE sells a fitting that has a Schrader (bicycle pump) valve and gauge on a 1/2 inch FPT or hose thread fitting that can be placed on a hose bib. All plumbing installations are tested like this - if done right.

That's a really good idea to minimize water damage. If you can hear air leaks but can't see where they are coming from, use Windex or a similar product and spray the pipes and joints. The leaks will bubble.

[911_Dude]

Great input guys. Im going to warm up the house for a few days and turn the water back on using some of the suggestions here. I think I may have gotten lucky. Ill post back later.

The coldest part of the house was the upstairs, followed by the first floor. The basement felt above freezing, and the copper was all in the interior of the basement. I think the freezing occured within the bathroom vanity and kitchen sink cabinets where the pipes pop up through the floor, and the toilets had about an inch of ice on top. I think I would have seen any leaks. Keeping fingers crossed. For the most part, its pretty accessable.

Pex is used in the upstairs bath and the chase taking the water up. Its pretty forgiving for freezing, isnt it?

[onewhippedpuppy]

Sometimes......

[on2wheels52]

When I was a kid I didn't think it got cold in the South.
Jim

[GWN7]

My other house the first year we had it froze. We replaced all the lines with new copper and pitched it so all the runs would drain (or so we thought). Almost every joint was leaking the next time we went out there. Another trip to the hardware store and we replaced all the copper lines with freeze thaw stable plastic. That was 8 years ago not a problem since and the plastic is so easy to work with.

[911_Dude]

FOLLOW UP

Well, I got lucky. I thawed the house out for 4 days at 50 deg and turned the water back on for the first floor with the copper. All good. Second floor, good as well.

I looked, listened, and use the triangle flow meter on the water shut off at the street. I would have never thought of using that.

Thanks guys for all the tips and suggestions!!



.

[stomachmonkey]

You think it's bad when inbound pipes freeze and burst?

The main sewage line is worse, you'll end up with a 600 sq ft 3 in deep frozen lake of waste under your house which is not so bad till spring time when it thaws and you "discover" it.

Ask me how I know.

[afterburn 549]

A welder on steel pipes screwed together..but copper.....the solder joints might melt ...
What you do is string out the weld leeds as far as you can in th pipe system...turn the volts on welder to lowest setting..see what happens , go from there...