An update on my ex-property management - deposit return

[WolfeMacleod]

Back in December I posted about my ex property manager, and the return of our security deposits...

We moved over the Month of November. They had 14 days to return my security deposits.
On December 19th, I got a "preliminary report" and a check for $1700, with statements that I would get "more, later"

Well, later has finally come.
Yesterday I received a check for $1227.
How many days has it been? We completed our move on November 30th...

77 days, by my count.

The "preliminary" report included such charges as:
$200 estimated for unpaid utilities
$400 estimated for carpet cleaning
$500 estimated for interior cleaning
$300 for light bulbs and marks on walls
and $200 for water damage to a bathroom baseboard.


After hearing nothing from them for quite a while, after our last contact and thier refusal to follow the law, I hired an attorney who has some experience in this matter.
He wrote a demand letter, explaining and outlining the law, the facts, and that even in the lease, it was stated that my deposits would be returned "in a single check" -- and also that he would be adding his fees to the deposit return amount, so far totaling a little over $600. The letter was sent out on the 5th of this month.

So, the check I just received Saturday... and the "final" report...

$300 for interior cleaning.
$71.18 for light bulbs and "marks on walls"




Well, I have an issue with that. First off, if I accept the check and settle, then I have to pay the attorney out of my pocket, which eats up almost half the check. I shouldn't have had to hire an attorney.

The marks on walls are normal wear and tear.

Cleaning. I logged over 60 hours cleaning that house over the weekend of Thanksgiving. I have evidence that the house was never cleaned. You see, the house was put back up for rent a month after we moved out. The RE agent who initially showed me the house, and I, went there and he took a series of pictures, to compare to my pictures.

Here's a couple examples.
My picture:


Bob's picture


Notice anything funny about these two pictures?
That's right. The window curtain, shower curtain on the shelf, shower head... all in exactly the same positions they were when I locked up the house. Look at the fold patterns in the window curtain... had the cleaned the shower and window sill, that curtain would have moved.

Here's another:

My picture: Upstairs 'loo


Bob's picture:


Notice the plunger in exactly the same position? Had they cleaned around the toilet, it would have moved...

My picture: Back storage room, stuff that was there when we moved in.


Bob's picture:


My picture: All of this was stuff that was currently in the house when we moved in. My picture was to show that I had cleaned off some dark, dark staining on the floor. Note the position of the wooden "thing" on the floor. Had they swept or cleaned the floor, it would have moved...

Bob's picture:




My picture:



Bob's Picture




I find this one particularly interesting. This is one of the lower bedrooms that was marked as "needs cleaning" on the preliminary report. (actually, virtually everything was marked as "needs cleaning"
Look just to the right of the bottom of the post. See that small "ball" on the carpet by the base board? It's a small lint ball that I missed during cleaning.
It's still there in Bob's picture...



I am convinced, without a doubt, that they did not clean the place before putting it up for rent again.

I'm very inclined to refuse the check. This is their standard operating procedure, to abuse their tenants like this and make them wait. They refused to give their attorney's contact information to my attorney, and they complete disregarded his letter, IMO. Otherwise, they would have paid me my full deposit, which they must, by law, since they so horribly missed the 14 day window...

I'm inclined to take it to court, and go for double the deposit amount, because if we win, and I'm sure we would, I can then roll it over into a Class Action suit. Which I would...

So, that's the update.

[WolfeMacleod]

Oh.. here are the "marks on the walls" Which were not painted over, by the way, when we went in for Bob to take his pictures.

Caused by the corners of my bed, apparently.




Caused by sofa, apparently.

[Bugsinrugs]

As a landlord with numerous rentals I give the entire deposit back unless there is severe abuse. Normal wear and tear is expected. Painting and new carpet are usually done for every new tenant. You should not have to pay for normal wear and tear. The marks from your bed are normal wear and tear to me.

[onlycafe]

go get 'em wolfe, best of luck.
if there is any justice in the court you'll kick their asses.

[javadog]

Sue him. He deserves it and more.

JR

[WolfeMacleod]

There were several other pictures as well, showing things in exactly the same positions that they were left. phone and speaker cords and such protruding from walls, etc, such as the cable in the picture above. Lots of random cords sticking out of walls in that place.
Lets suppose they cleaned the baseboards in that picture, or vacuumed. Pretty sure that cord would have been moved somehow.

When I remarked to my attorney about these things, he was surprised at the attention to detail that I have. He wouldn't have even noticed these things, but they're important to show that the house had not been cleaned. IMO, they show just that.

The devil's in the details, right?

[WolfeMacleod]

Here's something I just noticed. I thought something looked off about this copy of the cleaning invoice they sent me, along with the check...
(Not to mention, there is no mention of what and where was cleaned, on the invoice.)

Do you see anything unusual about this?

How is it possible for the invoice to be dated on 12/30/13 , yet the WMP received stamp is dated on the 27th? I'm assuming the invoice is dated on the day it was created and presumably mailed, and that WPM stamped it as received on the day it was received.

[Baz]

Take 'em to court - but since you already have an attorney retained - run it by him first. Maybe one more final demand letter with specifics will get the results you deserve.

I wouldn't let them abuse you like this - there are laws to protect you.

Go get 'em Wolfe!

[javadog]

Sounds like the guy is creating a fake paper trail for the cleaning that wasn't done.

I think you'd have a field day in court with this one. I once sued a guy that was this clueless and quite guilty and it cost him $4k plus attorney's fees to think he could make **** up and get away with it.

JR

[GWN7]

Sue....ask for double the deposit amount + lawyers fees + costs. You don't need to know their lawyers name. Just serve them personally.

[McLovin]

What a jerk.

I'm a landlord with many rentals. I've never held back a security deposit. If someone pays all their rent on time, moves out on time, leaves a place somewhat reasonable and causes no problems, I consider myself lucky and I always give them the benefit of the doubt.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by javadog

Sounds like the guy is creating a fake paper trail for the cleaning that wasn't done.

I think you'd have a field day in court with this one. I once sued a guy that was this clueless and quite guilty and it cost him $4k plus attorney's fees to think he could make **** up and get away with it.

JR

Yup. Back in my college days I moved out of a place and my now brother-in-law moved in. I was charged for the usual cleaning fees but I'm certain that not a damn thing was done. Later on, my wife and I lost our deposit for a place that we left spotless for ridiculous items like the exterior windows not being cleaned. VERY common in a college town where rental housing is at a premium. As a poor college student I didn't have the time or money to take the slumlords to court. Sue him and make him regret his actions.

[dad911]

Originally Posted by McLovin

What a jerk.

I'm a landlord with many rentals. I've never held back a security deposit. If someone pays all their rent on time, moves out on time, leaves a place somewhat reasonable and causes no problems, I consider myself lucky and I always give them the benefit of the doubt.

Same here. Also, in NJ, double damages plus legal expenses if landlord loses..... So they usually get it all back.

[Evans, Marv]

Would this qualify as fraud??

[WolfeMacleod]

Originally Posted by Evans, Marv

Would this qualify as fraud??

Possibly. My attorney found it a little odd.

He sent me a copy of the reply we received. It said (in part..)

"We reject your demand."
"You admit that a partial refund was received."

"Contrary to your assertions, the law is not what you are representing.......blahblah
The law does not state that all charges must be finalized within 14 days, and that no revisions are allowed."

Basically, stating that the deposit return was partially held until utility charges became known.Mind you, all utilities were paid as soon as the meters were read, within a week of moving out.

Even in our lease, it stated that the deposit would be returned "With a single check" within 14 days

They are disputing the "normal wear and tear" items as being not normal because of the light bulbs.

Demand letter

Reply here, if you feel like reading it.

Tenant's Union of Washington has told me that Puckett and Redford are "notorious for representing greedy slumlords"


If I accept the check, the attorney's fees eat up a large portion of it, since they are refusing to cover the attorney fees. Had they did what they were supposed to in the first place, I wouldn't have had to hire an attorney.

[stomachmonkey]

You know you have the number for the company that did the cleaning as well as an invoice number.

Would not take much to call up accounting because you need another copy.

If they can't find the original then maybe it never existed.

BTW, where on the invoice that you posted is the information about what address the cleaning services were supplied for?

If it's not there that's a reason to call and ask.

[WolfeMacleod]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

You know you have the number for the company that did the cleaning as well as an invoice number.

Would not take much to call up accounting because you need another copy.

If they can't find the original then maybe it never existed.

BTW, where on the invoice that you posted is the information about what address the cleaning services were supplied for?

If it's not there that's a reason to call and ask.

Yep, I know. I already called them and spoke to them yesterday. I wanted to know what areas were supposedly cleaned, since nothing specific was listed on the invoice. It just says "Housekeeping"
They said I'd have to talk to the property manager about the invoice.
The service address is noted on the invoice.

[on2wheels52]

krikey WM, how much was your deposit? $3K?
I guess I'm a bit out of touch, haven't rented a house since (say it ain't so, Joe) 40 years ago.
Jim

[javadog]

If the condition after you cleaned the place was unnacceptable to the landlord, and he had the place cleaned, you would expect to see a significant difference in the photos. You don't.

Either the invoice is a scam, or the "cleaning" was a scam. Either way, you show those pictures to a judge and he's going to be real amused.

The "wear and tear" is laughable. The charges are not realistic. He's in violation of the terms of the lease.

I say quit screwing around with them. File a lawsuit and go after every dime that the law allows.

JR

[t-tom]

Originally Posted by javadog

I say quit screwing around with them. File a lawsuit and go after every dime that the law allows.

JR

This.