Shootings in Santa Barbara

[craigster59]

At least they're talking about some logical legislation to try and stop thes tragedies from reocurring rather than blame it on pistol grips and high cap magazines.
Legislation Would Allow Family, Friends To Notify Authorities Of Potential Gunman « CBS Los Angeles

[GG Allin]

Originally Posted by Ronbo

I read his "manifesto", which was really more of an autobiography. He lived in Woodland Hills, West Hills, and Canoga Park at various times. He did indeed attend Pierce College, as well as Moorpark CC and finally Santa Barbara CC. He kept changing because he couldn't get along with anyone and hated seeing the couples in his classes, and rarely finished a class. The parents sent him to SBCC and set him up in an apartment in IV in an effort to immerse him with people his own age and hope he would integrate. Unfortunately this only enraged him further. His mother did in fact call the police when she saw his disturbing YouTube videos. The police visited him and determined everything is okay. A few weeks later he went on his long planned rampage.

Cops were thinking, "We're safe, we have tough gun laws here".

[Baz]

Originally Posted by GG Allin

Cops were thinking, "We're safe, we have tough gun laws here".

Not sure if that was meant to be sarcasm but regardless - since you brought it up - what were the cops thinking (?) - is a good question.

They have a lot on their plate every day with nutty people. I mean - I'm not a cop but a day doesn't go by without me seeing at least 2 or 3 people that make me wonder what planet they came from.

So getting back to these "wellness" visits by cops.....maybe now when they get that request to check out a "raving" person - their radar will be dialed up a tad more.

But in this case - we weren't there during the visit so we can only speculate as to how that visit went, other than the cop's remarks about the kid seeming polite and a nice guy (or something to that effect).

[yazhound]

Here locally a bubbly out-going law school student, top of class, hash harrier runner, very pretty was killed and dismembered by fellow student. Looking at him later one might have wondered but at the time not so much. Many of those who know him as more than a casual friend said not way he could have done it. Later found out guy had somehow managed to acquire master key to all the apartments in his small complex.

In my profession I come in contact with many many people with mental illness over the years. Very very few has shown a propensity for any greater violent tendancies than the rest of us "normal" people. And most of those have TBI - Traumatic Brain Injury. An easy predictor of such behavior. As for the rest, their diagnosis/diagnoses do not necessarily lend themselves as easy predictors of later homicidal behavior.

[VaSteve]

I didn't realize this was so long ago.... of course it was a student from china so you never remember her...

Virginia Tech Student Decapitated With Kitchen Knife by Attacker She Knew | Fox News
Virginia Tech Student Decapitated With Kitchen Knife by Attacker She Knew | Fox News

[VaSteve]

so they gave everything but their time...

may as well have had some hamster's & wheel...

and now they cry..

we did everything we could..

no you didn't..

you didn't even care..

you wrote checks..



Rika

Like many rich couples....have kids as pets.

[Cajundaddy]

Originally Posted by Baz

Not sure if that was meant to be sarcasm but regardless - since you brought it up - what were the cops thinking (?) - is a good question.

They have a lot on their plate every day with nutty people. I mean - I'm not a cop but a day doesn't go by without me seeing at least 2 or 3 people that make me wonder what planet they came from.

So getting back to these "wellness" visits by cops.....maybe now when they get that request to check out a "raving" person - their radar will be dialed up a tad more.

But in this case - we weren't there during the visit so we can only speculate as to how that visit went, other than the cop's remarks about the kid seeming polite and a nice guy (or something to that effect).

Cops hate those kind of calls and generally don't handle them very well because they are not sure what they are looking for. If someone is bleeding or on fire they know exactly what to do, but polite kid in a quiet apartment with parents calling saying there might be trouble... It feels more like a babysitting job. Maybe they need specific training with a call # for such calls.

"Section 8= Possible sociopath. A polite, articulate, well dressed guy with a possible arsenal in his bedroom waiting to murder everyone in the building when you leave."

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

Cops hate those kind of calls and generally don't handle them very well because they are not sure what they are looking for. If someone is bleeding or on fire they know exactly what to do, but polite kid in a quiet apartment with parents calling saying there might be trouble... It feels more like a babysitting job.

Great post - I totally get that.

I'm with Rika and Steve.....it seems as though the parents were not in that kid's life as much as they should or could have been.

Probably a lot of that going around.....

[VillaRicaGA911]

I don't suppose the fact his dad goes around the world taking pictures of women's a**es had anything do to with his so called mental illness and view of the opposite sex, as well as his own self professed issue he saw coming from playing hours of violent video games. Of course we can also not make even the slightest suggestion that a lack of something bigger than himself to answer to in life (God) and set bounds for behavior along with good and evil had nothing at all to do with this outcome. Then when this happens again most of the country and the so called news media will stand around pretending to be confused as to how this could have happened (again). The cry will go out for some elected officials to do something, gun control will be the excuse or not enough money spent on mental illness and not once as with any of these that have taken place will ANYONE that had anything to do with the development, mentoring, raising, or teaching take ANY ACCOUNTABILITY. Will this kids father or the fathers of any of the others come out and say its my fault I should not have been traveling the world treating women as objects in front of my son, taking pictures of these women's a**es, for being absent while he spent hours playing violent video games? Sadly I think we all know the answer to this question - its NO and so these mass killings will continue while we all stand around with our heads in the sand.

[jyl]

OpEd in the NYT today. A (highly qualified) psychiatrist says that the profession is largely unable to identify the few mentally ill persons who will commit murder, from the far greater number of mentally ill persons who will not.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/05/28/opinion/why-cant-doctors-identify-killers.html?hpw&rref=opinion&_r=0&referrer=

It is just an OpEd, of course, but I suspect he is right.

So expecting a police officer or even the average mental health professional to do so, especially based on only a short interview, is too much. (Presuming of course the officer isn't privy to the person's videos etc.)

[yazhound]

For those blaming the parents, can you say with any amount of unlaughable certainty that either you or your parents could have done a better job? Walk a mile....walk a mile... Easy to point fingers from afar and play the blame game. Much harder to "perfectly" deal with mental illness up close and personal.

[VaSteve]

There are many parent here on this forum with kids with varying disabilities. They have made sacrifices in their lives to provide for them. This kid seems to have had similar sacrifices made for him, or accommodations at least. Daily therapy, homeschooling, etc. However, they it makes you wonder why they would allow for him to be at college on his own???? Clearly he, and Lanza, were resourceful and intelligent. Its easy to spot the street raving maniac.....parents should know their kids well enough to protect society from them.

[techweenie]

Originally Posted by VaSteve

There are many parent here on this forum with kids with varying disabilities. They have made sacrifices in their lives to provide for them. This kid seems to have had similar sacrifices made for him, or accommodations at least. Daily therapy, homeschooling, etc. However, they it makes you wonder why they would allow for him to be at college on his own???? Clearly he, and Lanza, were resourceful and intelligent. Its easy to spot the street raving maniac.....parents should know their kids well enough to protect society from them.

Certainly that's true, but sociopathic and psychopathic behavior is often paired with an ability to charm, mask, fake, etc. the true thoughts and intents. And as you say, Steve, they are often pretty smart, or at least wily. These people often can mimic 'reassuringly normal' behavior. And honestly, what parent is going to be objective about his/her child?

Outside the family, I don't see any hope of a law that will prevent this type of mass killing. Laws are blunt instruments.

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by VaSteve

parents should know their kids well enough to protect society from them.

The parents either don't see it or are in complete denial. Their little snowflake is unique, precious and perfect.

[HardDrive]

Originally Posted by craigster59

At least they're talking about some logical legislation to try and stop thes tragedies from reocurring rather than blame it on pistol grips and high cap magazines.
Legislation Would Allow Family, Friends To Notify Authorities Of Potential Gunman « CBS Los Angeles

As long as there was a strong adjudication process to prevent the law from being abused, I think it holds promise.

[Gogar]

I've seen this before, but it's worth revisiting.

Nearly Every Mass Shooting In The Last 20 Years Shares One Thing In Common, And It Isn't Weapons - Liberty Crier

Nearly every mass shooting incident in the last twenty years, and multiple other instances of suicide and isolated shootings all share one thing in common, and its not the weapons used.
The overwhelming evidence suggests the single largest common factor in all of these incidents is that all of the perpetrators were either actively taking powerful psychotropic drugs or had been at some point in the immediate past before they committed their crimes.
Multiple credible scientific studies going back more then a decade, as well as internal documents from certain pharmaceutical companies that suppressed the information show that SSRI drugs ( Selective Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitors ) have well known, but unreported side effects, including but not limited to suicide and other violent behavior. One need only Google relevant key words or phrases to see for themselves. SSRI Stories is one popular site that has documented over 4500 “ Mainstream Media “ reported cases from around the World of aberrant or violent behavior by those taking these powerful drugs…
…On to the list of mass shooters and the stark link to psychotropic drugs.
Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the public.
Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.
Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.
Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.
Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.
Mathew Miller, age 13, hanged himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.
Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.
Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.
A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.
Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..
A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.
Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.
TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.
Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.
James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.
Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania
Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California
Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.
Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.
Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic’s file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.
Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.
Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.
Alex Kim, age 13, hanged himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.
Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.
Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family’s Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.
Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hanged herself from a hook in her closet. Kara’s parents said “…. the damn doctor wouldn’t take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil…”)
Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,
(Gareth’s father could not accept his son’s death and killed himself.)
Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hanged herself in her family’s detached garage.
Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.
Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.
Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.
A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.
Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and “other drugs for the conditions.”
Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.
Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.
Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.
Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.
Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school…





etc.

[intakexhaust]

For the moment, forget where the killer acquired the knife. No law or anyone could stop that but lets look to how or why he was able to have a legal registered gun.

I haven't read or heard much on the incident but how did he get the gun?
Was it registered to him or someone else?
If someone else's, shouldn't they take responsibility by not reporting a stolen gun?
Apparently, the mother had the police check up on the kid but left with no concerns. Did they search for or consider the possibility of him having a gun?

[craigster59]

He purchased the handguns legally. But if his parents would have shared emails, YouTube videos with authorities perhaps the firearms could have been seized. Seems that with today's social media, it wouldn't be too hard to see clues in FB posts, emails to parents and friends that could be used to thwart this behavior.

[widebody911]

What's the difference between an egg and Elliot Rodger?

An egg gets laid before it cracks.

[Gogar]