Airplanes are sure expensive to own

[BigInJapan]

C185. Yum. I have a bunch of time in an early 180. Flew it all over the Idaho backcountry. Such a great platform.

I went a different route because I need to get places quickly for work, and I'm tired of going through security and dealing with commercial aviation...Lancair IV-P.

It's a lot further along now than these pics, but I haven't uploaded any recent ones to the computer. I expect to be flying late this year. Bodywork is finished, the new 400hp lump is on. All major stuff is done; I just need to grind away at the finish work.

[KNS]

Originally Posted by dar636

No cure in sight. Made possible by a pilot spouse, hangar to store stuff, doing my own maintenance 93% of the time and in keeping the use fun vs. driven by business or schedule.

If it quits raining here soon one of the boats goes in the water.

The 69 Century IS for sale...btw.

That is a great hanger - windows! You don't see that very often.

Phoenix, Deer Valley (KDVT) has an uncommon policy. NO cars in your hanger, not even to park in while you're out flying. A while back some guy was painting his car in his hanger and a bit of overspray made its way up and over to the next hanger and settled on to another guy's car (which he wasn't supposed to have in there). KDVT admin said "tough luck, shouldn't have had your car in there".

[moneyburner]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

How much would it cost to maintain a Piper Cub if one were given to me?

Depends entirely upon what kind of condition it's in. Fabric, rust, engine overhauls, etc. are all possibilities. The thing to do would be to get it looked at by someone who has a lot of experience with rag and tube airplanes, preferably Cubs, and see what they think. I've got a PA-12 with 50 hours on a new engine, about 100 hours on new wings and fabric. I put away $50 for every hour I fly it, above and beyond gas and oil. That's probably low. That funds annuals, engine overhauls, fabric recovers and goodies. My last annual was $2500, but I had to replace my muffler and shrouds, which isn't normal. I have an 0-320 and overhauls are around $15,000, but you can get ten years out of one, maybe more. There are hoses, brakes, props and other assorted things that need replacement from time to time. You might want bigger tires (who doesn't?) or other mods. Hangars are highly recommended and those will run you about $350 where I live. I own mine, but monthly dues are around $100 for heat and lights, etc. Outdoor tie-downs run $25-75 per month. If you have little or no tail wheel time, your insurance is going to be "Ridiculously expensive", if you can get any at all. Good idea to check first, maybe. Depends where you are, also. AVEMCO wouldn't insure me at all (for hull) when I lived in Alaska. No sweat in Washington. I spent about $6500 last year, but that included a trip from Anchorage to Seattle, which was spendy. 100 octane avgas almost $7.00 where I live, and it runs me around $60/hour just for that. (I can't use autogas because of my engine). If you already have a Porsche, a boat and a wife, you might already be out of options. But - I'm making it work, and I'm RETIRED!!!

[moneyburner]

Originally Posted by KNS

That is a great hanger - windows! You don't see that very often.

Phoenix, Deer Valley (KDVT) has an uncommon policy. NO cars in your hanger, not even to park in while you're out flying. A while back some guy was painting his car in his hanger and a bit of overspray made its way up and over to the next hanger and settled on to another guy's car (which he wasn't supposed to have in there). KDVT admin said "tough luck, shouldn't have had your car in there".

That's pretty damn nice!

[FLYGEEZER]

I feel so poor with my old high time tri-pacer & 944.

[BigInJapan]

I am poor because of the TSIO-550X. Silly thing cost well more than a 15k mile 993TT.

Ian

[widgeon13]

There is a nice article on the Debonair in the July AOPA mag. Beautiful redo on an older aircraft. Some expensive ideas for the future "while you were in there" projects.

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by FLYGEEZER

I feel so poor with my old high time tri-pacer & 944.

I wouldn't mind a tri-pacer. Buy-in is really reasonable. It would cost me more to hangar it than anything. Good little planes for putzing about though.

[BikePilot]

Lots of awesome planes! I love the IV-P. I haven't got an airplane yet, but flew gliders a bunch in college and plan to get a plan or two eventually. I've already got the porsche and boat so might as well go all the way

[dar636]

There are lots of good older aircraft out there. Piper made some great ones, Pacers do look good! I wouldn't hesitate to own something built right after the war. Find something you like the look of just sitting on the ground, you'll spend more time looking at it in the hangar than actually flying it. Just like Porsches.

And if you get involved with owners groups for the aircraft type you find, or with an EAA chapter you'll find lots of related info similar to what's available here on PP. These old aircraft are super simple compared to even the oldest 911 too. I vote to rescue an old aircraft.

I started with a Aeronca Champ and hope to go back one someday. The Champ and a 3 acre airpark property - going back to 1984 - were the initial investment in what I own and fly today. Each aircraft paid for the next, etc... Timing was everything. I don't know if you could repeat that process today, but I'd have no hesitation starting over again as flying is the attraction.



While flying the Champ I bought a wrecked Maule M-4 and got it ready to haul the family around when the wife decided it was too cramped, so off it went to a neighbor who is still enjoying it. We went back to Cessna's with a 182 because they're plentiful, easy to work on and you can pick up the phone and order new parts.

Maule before


After


182 After (don't have a before cause it was so ugly)


We are at the Auburn WA airport now (S50). (I haven't seen you sir in the motor glider for a while, glad you're still around). Anytime the cars are in front of the hangar someone is inside. Anyone from this group is welcome to stop in.

[cashflyer]

Do any of you guys have a first-hand recommendation for a good IA near KLWD ?

One of my customers moved to that area and I want to be sure he gets a good wrench to keep him flying safe.

[James Brown]

Ok, here is a good example, take a 70's Cessna 172, add the Cessna SID (special inspection documents) 26 step aging inspection program and a new engine/prop and you wind up with a $50,000 bill for a $25,000 aircraft. Cost of flying? maybe, cost of flying older certified aircraft? YES.



ether way, its not cheap to fly

[dmcummins]

Originally Posted by James Brown

Ok, here is a good example, take a 70's Cessna 172, add the Cessna SID (special inspection documents) 26 step aging inspection program and a new engine/prop and you wind up with a $50,000 bill for a $25,000 aircraft. Cost of flying? maybe, cost of flying older certified aircraft? YES.



ether way, its not cheap to fly

It would make it a parts plane if it were mine.

Mine is still in the shop. I haven't gotten any calls so I'm hopping that is a good sign. I made it pretty clear that I need to be informed if anything comes up. I plan to stop by today or tomorrow.

[cashflyer]

Originally Posted by James Brown

Ok, here is a good example, take a 70's Cessna 172, add the Cessna SID (special inspection documents) 26 step aging inspection program and a new engine/prop and you wind up with a $50,000 bill for a $25,000 aircraft.

I don't know a single Cessna owner in my area who has done the aging aircraft inspections that Cessna came out with a couple years ago. May I ask why you opted for this? (Maybe you are a commercial operator?) Also, how much of the $50k did that regimen account for?

[James Brown]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

I don't know a single Cessna owner in my area who has done the aging aircraft inspections that Cessna came out with a couple years ago. May I ask why you opted for this? (Maybe you are a commercial operator?) Also, how much of the $50k did that regimen account for?

Yes were part 135, on demand charters. the inspections are not mandatory, but soon will be then there will be a ton of these for sale cheep. FAA made them mandatory for twins and boy, what a mess that turned out to be. just trying to be ahead of the curve, uggggg. Most of the cost is labor, visual inspections mostly but we found some cracks in the engine mounts and corrosion in the wings, typical stuff nothing major.

[dmcummins]

We'll so far so good. They have had one or two guys working on the annual inspection since Monday. Nothing big found so far, a few cracks in the baffle that they repaired and a wheel bearing and race replaced, an exhaust nut missing. They are checking for cracks on the main spar and the rudder, part of a 500hr check, hopefully those are ok.

Since I'm down in Florida I'm also going to have them do a corrosion protection, they fog everything with something called corrosion X.

I think the rate is around $75hr, which I'm not complaining about, but I hope they start putting everything back together soon.

[aschen]

No offence to gen-av mechanics, but I gotta think working on a small piston plane is pretty straight forward.

I know you have to be quite carefull and thurough, but holy crap are they simple machines. I worked at continental motors for a summer and even the engines are super simple relative to a modern auto.

[gordner]

The small piston aircraft are very simple in construction for sure. Surprisingly though, the simplest engines in design and construction are the turbines, much simpler than the pistons.

[dmcummins]

Not much to them that's for sure. I'm not sure what you have to do to be an AP/IA, but they have to have that to work and sign off on my plane.

[KNS]

Originally Posted by aschen

No offence to gen-av mechanics, but I gotta think working on a small piston plane is pretty straight forward.

I know you have to be quite carefull and thurough, but holy crap are they simple machines. I worked at continental motors for a summer and even the engines are super simple relative to a modern auto.

The big difference between A&Ps and your typical auto mechanic (besides A&Ps being paid less) is that they have to put their signature on all their work. If the plane falls out of the sky guess who they are going to want to question.