Airplanes are sure expensive to own

[James Brown]

Quote de aschen

No offence to gen-av mechanics, but I gotta think working on a small piston plane is pretty straight forward.



I know you have to be quite carefull and thurough, but holy crap are they simple machines. I worked at continental motors for a summer and even the engines are super simple relative to a modern auto.

The big difference between A&Ps and your typical auto mechanic (besides A&Ps being paid less) is that they have to put their signature on all their work. If the plane falls out of the sky guess who they are going to want to question.

roger that

[dmcummins]

Bad news today, they found a hairline crack on the rudder spar. The part to replace is a piece of u-channel aluminum with a couple of nut plates attached, its a couple of feet long. The parts is $1,200, they will have to drill out the old one and then repaint and balance the rudder. That's going to add a bit to the annual cost.

[cashflyer]

Originally Posted by dmcummins

I'm not sure what you have to do to be an AP/IA, but they have to have that to work and sign off on my plane.

To be an IA, you have to have been an A&P for a minimum of 3 years, and you have to pass a written test. An IA is only required to sign Form 337, and to perform Annual inspections*. Everything else can be done by an A&P

Originally Posted by dmcummins

Bad news today, they found a hairline crack on the rudder spar. The part to replace is a piece of u-channel aluminum with a couple of nut plates attached, its a couple of feet long. The parts is $1,200, they will have to drill out the old one and then repaint and balance the rudder. That's going to add a bit to the annual cost.

You may want to speak to RJ Dauhn. He's in Florida, and has all the jigs and fixtures to do the job top-notch. And he may be competitive on the price. Doesn't hurt to ask. rjdauhnaircraft@gmail.com http://rjdauhnaircraft.com/


* And a few other uncommon tasks.

[Typ616]

Originally Posted by dmcummins

Bad news today, they found a hairline crack on the rudder spar. The part to replace is a piece of u-channel aluminum with a couple of nut plates attached, its a couple of feet long. The parts is $1,200, they will have to drill out the old one and then repaint and balance the rudder. That's going to add a bit to the annual cost.

That's a good definition of mixed feelings... They found a $1200 issue + labor. But it beats the rudder spar snapping in a catastrophic way in bad weather...

Still, thanks for the thread, I had thoughts of airplane ownership, I see it's kinda like jet skis, better rent... (the old adage "if it flies, floats or f##ks, rent it")

[cashflyer]

If it makes you fixed wing guys feel any better, this quarter one of my customers had their 5 year / 3000 hr inspection on their Bell 412. I just sent them the final bill.

$365k.

Now that is a pretty big helicopter, but still.....

[KNS]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

If it makes you fixed wing guys feel any better, this quarter one of my customers had their 5 year / 3000 hr inspection on their Bell 412. I just sent them the final bill.

$365k.

Now that is a pretty big helicopter, but still.....

Helicopter parts prices are breathtaking. I'll often ask our tech (of our AStar) how much a simple door window, trim molding, etc., costs. Yikes!!

[porsche4life]

If it makes you fixed wing guys feel any better, this quarter one of my customers had their 5 year / 3000 hr inspection on their Bell 412. I just sent them the final bill.



$365k.



Now that is a pretty big helicopter, but still.....

It's all relative to buy in price.... What's an inspection on a 10million dollar jet cost?

[Jrboulder]

Originally Posted by porsche4life

It's all relative to buy in price.... What's an inspection on a 10million dollar jet cost?

a 12 year on a learjet is 39k plus parts and extra labor

[dmcummins]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

You may want to speak to RJ Dauhn. He's in Florida, and has all the jigs and fixtures to do the job top-notch. And he may be competitive on the price. Doesn't hurt to ask. rjdauhnaircraft@gmail.com R.J. Dauhn Aircraft LLC.


* And a few other uncommon tasks.

Thanks, I'll talk with the IA today. It doesn't look like that difficult a repair, but it won't hurt to ask. The shop that is doing the annual is suppose to do good work and has been here since 1987.

I didn't get another call so I'm hopping that they didn't find any cracks in the main spar. They were getting ready to put on the dye penetrate when I left.

[dmcummins]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

If it makes you fixed wing guys feel any better, this quarter one of my customers had their 5 year / 3000 hr inspection on their Bell 412. I just sent them the final bill.

$365k.

Now that is a pretty big helicopter, but still.....

I see plenty of 40yr old or older planes around, I never see an old helicopter.

[dmcummins]

Originally Posted by Typ616

That's a good definition of mixed feelings... They found a $1200 issue + labor. But it beats the rudder spar snapping in a catastrophic way in bad weather...

Still, thanks for the thread, I had thoughts of airplane ownership, I see it's kinda like jet skis, better rent... (the old adage "if it flies, floats or f##ks, rent it")

I probably shouldn't be complaining much. Ive had the plane for two years and have put about 250hrs on. Last years annual was $400, I assisted.

The first year I had the door worked on, new battery, and a strut repaired, around $1200. Last year I had a CDI overhauled and brakes worked on, about $600. So really not to excessive for a plane that was built in 1960.

Now Ive spent quite a bit more than that on the plane, but it was for stuff I wanted to add, not stuff that needed repaired. And I had figured most of that into my buy price.

I figure it cost about $2000 a month for me to fly and own my own plane. So far its been less, but there will be some big expenses from time to time.

[cashflyer]

Originally Posted by dmcummins

I see plenty of 40yr old or older planes around, I never see an old helicopter.

They are out there, but probably not as many. The one in my hangar, our Jetranger, is 44 years old. Just finished the annual on Tuesday and flew it some on Wednesday.

Keep in mind that airplanes were around for anearly 40 years before the first commercial helicopter hit the scene - so before ~ 1943 there are no helicopters to find. That and the fact that there were just a LOT more planes built than helicopters, means that it will always be easier to find old-ish planes.

[KNS]

Just found out this morning that we have to replace the engine oil reservoir on the AStar (the one on there is leaking). This is a cylindrical, aluminum tank with two sight glasses and a filler neck with a couple of attachments for oil lines. Holds about four or five liters - doesn't seem too complicated. Similar concept as the oil tank on the 911 but much smaller.

$6000.00 for a factory tank (rebuilt, I believe).

[cashflyer]

Leaking at the weld? I think there was an AD for that....

Anyway, M-R Airframe in Ontario has repair approval on that item and may be able to repair it for you and provide a Form 1.

[romad]

I have friends who are senior captains in every major and none own airplanes.

I started flying at 14 and stopped flying 22 year ago....14 years I did nothing but fly or fix them. My degree is in Aviation Technology. I was ate up completely up utill I tried to support a family. Simmons offer me $13500 a year to fly in the right seat of a ****ty shorts 360. I even had to pay for the friggn hat. Early 90's was a hard job market in Aviation and I took a temporary engineering job. 20 years later oh well.......In the end it was like breaking up with your first girlfriend.
Over time I choose cars and racing for my fix, then when you think your over it something shiny flys-- by and I start thinking maybe ......but a little pondering and the feeling fades again. The cost-reward is just not there for me, maybe because I was a commercial pilot/mechanic the job aspect changes your perspective.

With that sad story said...if I came into some serious cash...an airplane or two would be my first purchases..............yes airplanes are expensive, but there are only two kinds of people in this world.......which one are you.

[KNS]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

Leaking at the weld? I think there was an AD for that....

From the sight glass, actually.

[gordner]

just did a mandated software update on a Gulfstream G550 and it came it at a little over a million dollars for a geek to hook up a computer for 20 minutes and load up what turns out to be about 12 new lines of code.
Business Aviation is where the real costs are, many manufacturers use there corporate side to support the transport category side. I replaced a fuel summing unit on a challenger 601 a couple of years ago for 16000 USD, the same unit (and i do mean the same unit, only change is Bombardier calls it a dash two to prevent installation in a corporate CL601) for a Bombardier regional jet is 2500USD. The actual cost is probably 3 or 4 grand and the corporate mark up covers the loss on Transport category.

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

If it makes you fixed wing guys feel any better, this quarter one of my customers had their 5 year / 3000 hr inspection on their Bell 412. I just sent them the final bill.

$365k.

Now that is a pretty big helicopter, but still.....

That's because helicopters are a loose collection of parts flying in formation but would rather be somewhere else.

That said, I always thought the Bell 222 and the Sikorsky S76 were pretty sexy birds.

[cashflyer]

Originally Posted by flipper35

I always thought the Bell 222 and the Sikorsky S76 were pretty sexy birds.

I currently have an offer in on a 430 for a client. If accepted, I should be going to pick it up in the next 2 or 3 weeks.

Most sexy helicopter Bell ever made, IMO, but doomed to failure due to Bell management. Only ~ 186 made.

Bell 430:

(not the one we have an offer on)

[flipper35]

Is that (more or less) a stretched 222/230? I like the color on that one.