Tony Stewart, this is not good

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by intakexhaust

Clean racing? Ahhh, OK. Search youboob for NASCAR. How many hours of draft bump's and demo derby time would you like?

And if you want to call any of them un-intentional, then why is it now the sport of CREW members AND teams to slug it out in the pits? What are they so upset about if its just a racing incident? Ridiculous. You mean as a NASCAR fan you've never seen this on TV highlight's or news? Seriously?

I'll agree with you and maybe I don't understand it. Bore's me like baseball. No way would I go out of my way and purchase a ticket and its not on our TV at home. The few Sprint Cup and Nationwide races attended were gratuitous tick's. I don't recall what race but there were so many yellows from wrecks that I took a few nap's. Like baseball, balance a cold Busch on the gut and watch the yahoo's.

Sorry about the kid and the loss for family and friends but maybe they could do something good for the future. Accept what he did WRONG but dump on these series promoters to end the shenanigan's.

Its not for you then, I can understand.

You are looking at clips of FOURTY YEARS of racing, with say, over a hundred races a year in one of the first motorsports to get an entire season televised and recorded. Yes - there is a bunch of over the years. Its been the distance of several 24hr Le Man's since the last driver's got in an altercation.

You are letting the Kyle Busch, Danica Patrick, and Kevin Harvick be how you judge all the other drivers. I've met two of the above - and yes - they are jackass's, but I've met most of the others, and enjoy it.

Not all sports are for everyone, I get it, but please don't base your idea of ALL of Nascar off of lowlight vids of a handful of jackass's. Lawyers, mechanic shop owners, house contractors, etc, all have their jackass's too. I can't get into basketball, doesn't matter how much I try, I just can't understand the game. I get not being into other people's sports, but I don't slam Basketball, and especially don't slam all involved because of what a few in the sport might do to negatively make the news.

[herr_oberst]

I was thinking, if the rule is "driver stay in car unless of fire", anyone who hops out mad will just say "thought I saw a fire".

There'd have to be a corollary that stated "if you jump out of your car thinking you're on fire, and if you then shake your fist at another driver, then expect a fine and suspension."

[cashflyer]

New Rule:
If you jump out of your car, we are going to set it on fire and let it burn to the ground.

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by URY914

This is not meant for anyone in particular but I wish people would stop posting "if he had just stayed in his car......"

As if we all haven't figured that out already Capt. Obvious.

Yes, If my grandmother had balls, I would not be posting this

[scottmandue]

I read a few pages but then lost interest, has anyone said this yet?
"If Tony Stewart wasn't involved in this accident it never would have made the news?"

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

I read a few pages but then lost interest, has anyone said this yet?
"If Tony Stewart wasn't involved in this accident it never would have made the news?"

+1, as per "If it wasn't Robin William...

[VaSteve]

I'm surprised it took this long to have a video up about sprint cars....
NASCAR Videos | FOX Sports

[speeder]

But it WAS Tony Stewart and it WAS Robin Williams. What's your point??

[cashflyer]

What if it was Robin Williams instead of Tony Stewart?

[skipdup]

Wait. This was TONY Stewart???

[intakexhaust]

Tervuren -

There's a death involved. No one involved intended to kill but sanctioning bodies starting at the top, meaning NASCAR promote and permit violence for profit and it trickles down to the local dirt roundies. The local jokers racing team is what drives people to see what they believe is 'real' racing. LOL And please don't compare F1 or any ALMS / LeMans to this.

I do appreciate one being a fan or supporter of any type of motorsports and at any level, but I hope your not defending the mentality of big league circle jerks. However when it gets so deep into a team and drivers head that pissing matches to violence takes it as far to even UNINTENTIONAL death, thats beyond my appreciation and POORLY REPRESENT's a league and most definitely NASCAR. But your telling me its clean racing? They have a real a PROBLEM. That's why other fans of racing joke about it, even late night talk show host use it as a butt of jokes. The mentality of unsportsmanlike racing is so obvious.

And you do acknowledge my opnion of the Stewart-Haas roster. The money they bring to the big circus... good ol'e France family knows what it means.

And there's no possible way you just watched the thousands of youboob vids NASCAR turned WWF. Not just the past 40 years either. Rather overwhelming, isn't it? Also, go to some smaller venues, the aggression is very common. Although its usually just a few bad apples but thats one too many.

TS has a problem, and he's had it way before this tragedy. The series including others mentioned earlier also have a problem. These drivers have been feeding on aggression and have become richer by doing so. I have no clue or thoughts of how Tony Stewart feels right now or what he was thinking at the moment of the incident, but I'll say he does have one heavy cloud -- er' smoke --- forever over him. The Ward kid sadly lost it and paid with his life. Dead, gone, nada. Was he smart, I don't know but he sure did a grave error. Maybe just like Mr. 'Smoke', thought he was above them all. These circle drivers all need a head re-alignment.

And what does being a sportsman mean anymore? Especially with the amounts spent by corporate sponsors who try to project a good image and promote products or services. Shame on Home Depot marketing execs for idolizing a jackazz like Stewart. And another reason why I despise these series ---- its just supposed to be a freakin race and I HATE THE GOONS. Why is it so many NASCAR fans cheer the bad guys? I wish the driving would just be fair and square. All the billions of dollars involved won't bring a dead kid back but will this be the start of quality, clean racing?

If these racing leagues really understood and cared more they should offer two choices:

Choice 1- Schenanigan drivers, hothead's, loss temper antics should have their racing license pulled. Oh yeah, that reminds me of Dani Patrick in the Indy Riot League --- she'd be done, gone.

Choice 2- Race and let them have at it, jump out of rides, be a matador in the bullring, all the antics... helmet throwing, take a dump and watch it melt on a hot track, but they drive cars without cages! Yee haw! And while at it, they get one set of bi-azz' tires. Extra points given for the best pit crews cage match fight.

[gordner]

Originally Posted by URY914

This is not meant for anyone in particular but I wish people would stop posting "if he had just stayed in his car......"

As if we all haven't figured that out already Capt. Obvious.

Maybe obvious, but the only piece of this whole story that is an incontrovertible fact, and it is of huge import in the question of culpability. It is basically impossible to know the actions of Tony Stewart from the evidence presented so far, so much more so his intent. His past actions have resulted in fines and a reputation as a hot head, not an entirely reckless individual. So you have a driver that bet on everyone seeing and avoiding him on the track, or on his own skill to dodge sprint cars at 45 mph, and he lost. You have a very talented driver that may have made an error in judgement or over estimated his own skill in trying to "splash" the irate driver (certainly possible) or may have intentionally hit him (seriously unlikely). Analyzing that, I would say the only certain responsibility for the result is on the driver that left his vehicle on an active track.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Originally Posted by intakexhaust

There's a death involved. No one involved intended to kill but sanctioning bodies starting at the top, meaning NASCAR promote and permit violence for profit and it trickles down to the local dirt roundies. The local jokers racing team is what drives people to see what they believe is 'real' racing. LOL And please don't compare F1 or any ALMS / LeMans to this.

Best post so far,

The FIA runs a very tight ship and there are serious penalties for bring the sport into disrepute. A lengthy ban makes everyone think twice before getting their fists out, even when their thoughts are clouded by the red mist.

Outside of the USA, I'd bet most people who enjoy watching F1, Le Mans, Moto GP, WRC consider NASCAR and especially dirt oval racing to be a bunch of good ole boys driving around in circles bumping into each other to entertain beer drinking rednecks.

I know this is far from the reality amongst most of the top level NASCAR teams but it is sadly what is portrayed on the TV and the organisers appear to accept.

Personally I think fighting has no place in professional motorsport unless it is for track space within the rules. If the rules don't deter people from jumping out of their car and slugging it out on the track or pits then the organiser needs to decide if they are in the racing business or the redneck entertainment business.

NASCAR will have to be very careful not to lose a large percentage of their fan base by toning down the racing contact rules too much as I'm sure the crashes and on track bust ups are what the fans have really come to see.

[VINMAN]

Originally Posted by intakexhaust

Tervuren -

The local jokers racing team is what drives people to see what they believe is 'real' racing.
[/COLOR]

How exactly, is it not "real racing"??

.

[VaSteve]

I have seen fights in many of the ball sports. What about that? McEnroe in tennis used to get a lot of press for smashing rackets. The old agony of defeat.

It a human condition.

Anyway....how many people on this thread have ever been to a Cup or even Nationwide race? Its very much s professional effort. There are a lot of beer drinking fools in the parking lots but I see a ton of snobbery in this (and every NASCAR) thread on PPOT. I was at the Glen last weekend....I don't recall that many hillbillies. Yes, many blue collar guys you don't see on a computer forum but not Cooter and Cletus like you all expect.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Captain Ahab Jr

.....NASCAR will have to be very careful not to lose a large percentage of their fan base by toning down the racing contact rules too much as I'm sure the crashes and on track bust ups are what the fans have really come to see.

Can't speak for everyone like you do, but when it comes to myself (and ALL of my buddies and our wives, and girlfriends) that have attended many races over the years...you're just flat wrong...we'll just have to disagree.

Originally Posted by VaSteve

I have seen fights in many of the ball sports. What about that? McEnroe in tennis used to get a lot of press for smashing rackets. The old agony of defeat.

It a human condition.

Anyway....how many people on this thread have ever been to a Cup or even Nationwide race? Its very much s professional effort. There are a lot of beer drinking fools in the parking lots but I see a ton of snobbery in this (and every NASCAR) thread on PPOT. I was at the Glen last weekend....I don't recall that many hillbillies. Yes, many blue collar guys you don't see on a computer forum but not Cooter and Cletus like you all expect.

Never seen a fight or ANY of the stereotypes depicted in this thread over the 20+ years I attended Nascar races (dozens of races at a half-dozen tracks). You want to see the "human condition"...go to a college football game on ANY Saturday or "many" pro games on a Sunday . But then again...I'm just an ignorant Southern redneck who wants to pay $100 to go see some wrecks and a few fights, so what do I know (and I feel "cheated" 'cause I've NEVER gotten my $ worth)....

ps: 'Cause I've ALWAYS had a DD for the ride home...I do admit to being a "beer drinking fool" however

[cashflyer]

Originally Posted by VINMAN

How exactly, is it not "real racing"??.

It is. What intakexhaust seems to be saying is that many fans see the local dirt-track events as MORE real than the NASCAR festival of yellow flags, restarts, and Junior.

And they may be right.

[Macroni]

I am sorry this happened. I do not think Tony would have in any stretch of imagination aimed his car at the boy with intent to kill. It is a dreadful outcome. Regardless, there is still responsibility on Tony's part.

[VINMAN]

Originally Posted by VaSteve

I see a ton of snobbery in this (and every NASCAR) thread on PPOT. .

Bingo.



.

[emcon5]

Originally Posted by ZOA NOM

No, Vinman, I just see the video very clearly. i race with a group of drivers who respect each other, who would never think of putting each other in danger unnecessarily, and TS represents the worst in the sport.

I'm disgusted by what I saw and heard on the video, and I'll never be convinced that TS didnt hit the throttle to try and scare the kid.

OK, but why would he have any reason to scare him? Why would he have any reason to think he would be in the middle of the track so Stewart could scare him?

Stewart made the pass. Ward ran wide, got in the loose dirt at the edge of the track, lost the back end, and kissed the wall.

Let me guess your answer: "Because I don't like NASCAR, and I don't like Tony Stewart, therefore he must be the sole reason that Ward is dead".

I don't like NASCAR either, it bores me to tears, and I don't give two schidts about Stewart or any other NASCAR driver, either, but I can be objective.

Originally Posted by gordner

So you have a driver that bet on everyone seeing and avoiding him on the track, or on his own skill to dodge sprint cars at 45 mph, and he lost.

Yep, and it is tragic.

You have a very talented driver that may have made an error in judgement or over estimated his own skill in trying to "splash" the irate driver (certainly possible) or may have intentionally hit him (seriously unlikely). Analyzing that, I would say the only certain responsibility for the result is on the driver that left his vehicle on an active track.

You are missing the third, and in my view most likely scenario. Stewart didn't see Ward until it was too late and did the best he could in a car that is difficult to control at slow speeds to avoid him, and came up short. This is what the driver two cars behind him believes, and I suspect he had a better view of the action than the video from the stands.

Stewart had no reason to be mad at Ward, and probably didn't know why the yellow was out (at least until the stopped car came into view). With no mirror and no spotter, and from what I can see in the video no contact between his car and Wards, why would he be mad enough at Ward to try and "Splash" or "Squirt" him? Again, no contact, no mirror, no spotter, would he have any reason to think Ward was mad at him?