Tony Stewart, this is not good

[VaSteve]

Come on emcon, people on the internet thousands of miles away know better than anyone that was there.

I have watched many a race and listened to lots of spotter traffic. Often drivers dont know who caused the wreck...and blame the nearby car. Drivers don't often know what lap it is, if they get mixed up in traffic or a pit issues who they are racing when they get back out. Spectators know a lot more than the drivers at the time.

Think about people looking at their phone in traffic and someone runs out or changes lanes. Stuff happens quick. The whole internet has the video to watch and rewatch. I really see the other one.

[yellowperil]

Tony "FA" Stewart has decided not to race at Michigan this weekend and Nascar and added new rules in regards to last weekend tragedy. I'm not surprised at either revelation.

I wouldn't be too surprised if TS quit all together. His age, last year's badly broken leg and the complications during recovery (infection or some such problem), his increasing girth, his career his waning I think. Having a rather poor year, also. All factors to ponder.

[widgeon13]

Originally Posted by yellowperil

I wouldn't be too surprised if TS quit all together. His age, last year's badly broken leg and the complications during recovery (infection or some such problem), his increasing girth, his career his waning I think. Having a rather poor year, also. All factors to ponder.

I don't think his ego would allow that.

I think TS is pretty much a jerk but I don't believe for a second he did anything malicious to try and hurt or scare Ward. I believe it was truly an accident and now a family is w/o their son and TS has screwed up his life because of the guilt he must now carry wondering whether he could have done something different.

Just a very sad situation.

[ZOA NOM]

Originally Posted by emcon5

OK, but why would he have any reason to scare him? Why would he have any reason to think he would be in the middle of the track so Stewart could scare him?

Stewart made the pass. Ward ran wide, got in the loose dirt at the edge of the track, lost the back end, and kissed the wall.

Let me guess your answer: "Because I don't like NASCAR, and I don't like Tony Stewart, therefore he must be the sole reason that Ward is dead".

I have no problem with NASCAR. I don't think there are very many talented drivers among them, but that's another thread. I don't like Tony. I don't believe that what he did was due to some "culture" in "redneck" racing, either. It was a personal failure of professionalism, and respect for the other driver. Stewart knew EXACTLY what he was doing, and drove his car DELIBERATELY towards Ward in an attempt to scare him.

This is a 1/2 mile oval track, not a road course where Tony might not be aware that he got out of his car. He knew he was on the track before he came through the turn onto the back straight. Ward was acting like a 20-year old, unfortunately, and tragically, so was the 43 year-old, who should have maintained his respect and professionalism, and simply drove by like the several other cars before him did. We're talking about a Saturday night sprint race for Christ's sake, Not the Daytona 500.

[biosurfer1]

Originally Posted by ZOA NOM

and simply drove by like the several other cars before him did.

How exactly do you drive by someone who is specifically targeting your car and running down the track at you? The other cars were able to go by because Ward was not aiming for them, in fact he purposely waited for them to go by before moving towards TS.

I don't know if TS did something to try and scare the kid or not (I doubt it) but the fact remains that Ward got out of his car and caused this 100% in my mind. He stays in the car, he's alive today...period.

[skipdup]

OK, just thinking here...
I "tend" to think TS was trying to scare, etc. But I know nothing for sure.
That said... For those that say 100% the kids fault...
Does the fact the kid got out of the car (a relatively common practice with this kind of racing, by the way) exonerate TS from any and all responsibility? It seems like some are saying it does, whether he was trying to scare/spray/teach a lesson, etc or not...

Not trying to argue or make a point. Honestly wondering what others think...

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by skipdup

OK, just thinking here...
I "tend" to think TS was trying to scare, etc. But I know nothing for sure.
That said... For those that say 100% the kids fault...
Does the fact the kid got out of the car (a relatively common practice with this kind of racing, by the way) exonerate TS from any and all responsibility? It seems like some are saying it does, whether he was trying to scare/spray/teach a lesson, etc or not...

Not trying to argue or make a point. Honestly wondering what others think...

Getting out of the car was a bad idea... running out on a dirt track at night into traffic was a very bad idea that killed him IMHO 100% the kids fault.
If any of us went running out on the freeway at night and got hit... who's fault would it be?

[emcon5]

Originally Posted by ZOA NOM

I have no problem with NASCAR. I don't think there are very many talented drivers among them, but that's another thread. I don't like Tony. I don't believe that what he did was due to some "culture" in "redneck" racing, either. It was a personal failure of professionalism, and respect for the other driver. Stewart knew EXACTLY what he was doing, and drove his car DELIBERATELY towards Ward in an attempt to scare him.

For what reason? Stewart has acted like an asshat in the past, but ever time I am aware of it was because he was the one out of the race, and have a perceived beef with another driver.

What possible reason would Stewart have for wanting to scare Ward?

Originally Posted by ZOA NOM

This is a 1/2 mile oval track, not a road course where Tony might not be aware that he got out of his car. He knew he was on the track before he came through the turn onto the back straight. Ward was acting like a 20-year old, unfortunately, and tragically, so was the 43 year-old, who should have maintained his respect and professionalism, and simply drove by like the several other cars before him did. We're talking about a Saturday night sprint race for Christ's sake, Not the Daytona 500.

Looking at the video, it was 26 seconds between the time of the initial spin by Ward when Stewart's car went out of frame, until the contact that killed Ward. So dividing by 4, that give Stewart 6.5 seconds from the time you think he should have been seen by Stewart. In the 6 seconds before the impact, 3 other cars passed Ward.

You know, Ward, the guy wearing all black who was running around in the middle of the dark racetrack. With three other cars between him and Stewarts Line of sight. Cars with giant vertical wing panels.

Originally Posted by skipdup

OK, just thinking here...
I "tend" to think TS was trying to scare, etc. But I know nothing for sure.
That said... For those that say 100% the kids fault...
Does the fact the kid got out of the car (a relatively common practice with this kind of racing, by the way) exonerate TS from any and all responsibility? It seems like some are saying it does, whether he was trying to scare/spray/teach a lesson, etc or not...

Yeah. Unless some evidence appears that Stewart was trying to scare him, which I doubt exists, no race driver should ever be expected to anticipate a driver running around the middle of the track.

On edit: Stupid forum, posted before I was finished.

As I said before, the sanctioning bodies who have allowed this sort of nonsense (getting out of your car and jumping around like an aggressive twat) deserve some blame, simply because they have allowed it to go on so long it has become part of the culture.

[LakeCleElum]

This thread is going in circles just like Sprint cars do........What lap are we on now? I lost count?

[BE911SC]

Tony Stewart gets out of his car in a rage and throws his helmet at another car = completely justified and sanctioning body looks the other way. (His fans love it.)

Nobody kid gets out of his car to do the same thing = stupid rookie mistake and we need a new rule(s) to stop such foolish behavior. And poor TS! How could that inconsiderate kid do such a thing and put Tony and his family and corporate entourage through all this terrible scrutiny and emotional trauma? We all hope you feel better soon Tony.

Kid stays in his car and "does the right thing" = he's a pussy and all you TS lovers know it.

Pussy = a fate worse than death and that's why these guys get out of their cars and that's why their fans love it.

[matt f]

The kid's dead, but at least he's not a pussy.
This is in green in my mind.

[A930Rocket]

Kid's fault 100%.

[porsche4life]

[QUOTE he's not a pussy.

This is in green in my mind.[/QUOTE]

So it's ok be to be an idiot as long as you aren't a pussy? That is the most f-ed like of thinking I've seen around here, which is saying something..

This kind of macho mentality is why guys do stupid stuff like we are discussing here, so they can sound tough to idiots like you. May you never die as a result if your own stupidity...

[Macroni]

Originally Posted by skipdup

exonerate ...

This is the United States exonerate is what we do....

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by skipdup

OK, just thinking here...
I "tend" to think TS was trying to scare, etc. But I know nothing for sure.
That said... For those that say 100% the kids fault...
Does the fact the kid got out of the car (a relatively common practice with this kind of racing, by the way) exonerate TS from any and all responsibility? It seems like some are saying it does, whether he was trying to scare/spray/teach a lesson, etc or not...

Not trying to argue or make a point. Honestly wondering what others think...

Getting out of the car - no, finger pointing - no. Trying to make physical contact with Tony's car or person - yes.

Tony did not come up the track to hit Ward, Ward came down the track to hit Tony. That is the difference. Ward, the last you see of him - is lunging into the side of the #14, either to hit the driver inside, climb onto the car, or tripped and fell.

Its akin to an insurance scammer standing by the side of a road, looking right at you - you expect him not to jump into the road as you see eye contact between you - you know he sees you. When you are two seconds from him - he steps out into the road - looking squarely at you. Its an entirely different matter to run up on a sidewalk and hit someone.

Originally Posted by BE911SC

Tony Stewart gets out of his car in a rage and throws his helmet at another car = completely justified and sanctioning body looks the other way. (His fans love it.)

When Tony did this - Kenseth was driving on a rev limiter through the pits. Tony was standing around talking to the ambulence and safety workers, Kenseth conveniently drove right by. Tony did not step out onto a track, and did not step into Kenseth's way, Tony did not come out of the car and walk out up the track banking to find Kenseth the moment his car came to rest. There is a difference here. NASCAR has passed out fines and suspensions for this stuff if they feel a driver put themselves or someone else in danger.

The driver's in this did not get a reward and NASCAR did not look the other way. They were both fined enough to buy a well setup Mustang + change.

[emcon5]

Originally Posted by BE911SC

Tony Stewart gets out of his car in a rage and throws his helmet at another car = completely justified and sanctioning body looks the other way. (His fans love it.)

If he was in the middle of a dark racetrack and got killed, it would be 100% his fault too.

Nobody kid gets out of his car to do the same thing = stupid rookie mistake and we need a new rule(s) to stop such foolish behavior. And poor TS! How could that inconsiderate kid do such a thing and put Tony and his family and corporate entourage through all this terrible scrutiny and emotional trauma? We all hope you feel better soon Tony.

If he had just thrown his helmet from the side, he would be alive today, watching the video of him spinning and trying to figure out why he was so mad.

Kid stays in his car and "does the right thing" = he's a pussy and all you TS lovers know it.

Pussy = a fate worse than death and that's why these guys get out of their cars and that's why their fans love it.

Which is why the culture needs to change, and it needs to come from the sanctioning bodies.

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by ZOA NOM

I have no problem with NASCAR. I don't think there are very many talented drivers among them, but that's another thread.

I am fortunate to be a race fan that lives near Charlotte - where lots of race teams and shops are based. Its also a banking hub.

F1, sports cars , Indycar, NASCAR, I've been at the kart track with all of them. The NASCAR guys are the only ones that can run with me after just a few minutes. Kurt Busch's first time out on the track layout we were running is within a few tenths of my time. kimi raikkonen has never gotten within a second and he's been out here a few times. I have a lot more respect for NASCAR drivers than I used to.

Some are there because of name/family, but the ones with multiple race wins or championships are top notch drivers.

That doesn't mean one can jump from one sport to the other - certain styles and setups favor one driver over another. Carl Edwards has a smooth style that is like you put his steering rack in a friction inducing clamp. Works great with a heavy NASCAR on a roadcourse(Carl won a race in the rain against "road racers" at the Grand Prix circuit in Montreal some years back) or oval, but he simply CANNOT adjust to karts, and is slower than Kimi.

If you want a better look at style, check out the race of champions front wheel drive rounds from a few years. Carl Edwards spanked Michael Schumacher in a car that required a smooth style, but Carl got his tail handed to him by Vettel in the next round in a very twitchy lightweight car. Shcumacher and Jimmy Johnson both have driving styles that rely on a lot of right foot to rotate the car - they both lost their FWD rounds and were eliminated. That doesn't mean they are bad drivers - just their style didn't fit that car.

[skipdup]

I think I get it. I guess some are 100% sure they know what was in TS's mind (and his intentions), therefore it's all (my question) a moot point.

[URY914]

Originally Posted by LakeCleElum

This thread is going in circles just like Sprint cars do........What lap are we on now? I lost count?

ditto, ditto,

[matt f]

Originally Posted by porsche4life

[QUOTE he's not a pussy.

This is in green in my mind.

So it's ok be to be an idiot as long as you aren't a pussy? That is the most f-ed like of thinking I've seen around here, which is saying something..

This kind of macho mentality is why guys do stupid stuff like we are discussing here, so they can sound tough to idiots like you. May you never die as a result if your own stupidity...[/QUOTE]

Responding to post above mine. #310.
If you think I'm ok with what happened, you're wrong.
Stay in car and live.
It's pretty simple.