What is a trophic cascade and how exactly do wolves change rivers?

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by pitargue

How about the Grizzly into California. It is after all, on the state flag.

Could me made into a movie like Sharknado. CalGrizzly perhaps?

Hmm - I think a Sharknado T-shirt / van mural trumps both Wolves howling at the moon AND an eagle/moon/salmon....

-Z

[vash]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

Wolves are so cool..... I wish somebody would put a wolf on a T-shirt.
Maybe even 2 or 3 wolves.
And what would be even cooler? Have them howling at a moon.



Naah.... That would just be too much awesomeness for one shirt.

OMG...cant stop laughing. i'm done for the day..thanks.

[herr_oberst]

Cartoon of "Manwolf" (WTF?) with a huge full moon and a flying saucer?

Done and Done!!!!!

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by herr_oberst

Cartoon of "Manwolf" (WTF?) with a huge full moon and a flying saucer?

Done and Done!!!!!

Heh heh - that's awesome. You win.

[Daves911L]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

There are as many conclusions being drawn about the ever changing ecosystems in Yellowstone (and elsewhere) as there are people studying them. Disagreement abounds regarding cause and affect. There are, unfortunately, a good deal of politics involved. There are an awful lot of uninformed people choosing which particular scenario they would believe in based purely on emotion, facts be damned. Videos like this serve to reinforce what they think they already "know" about the situation. There is, of course, far more serious and enlightened discussion taking place in the background, but those who have already made up their minds want nothing to do with any of that. Slick videos with English narrators tell them all they need to "know". Those are the folks who are truly living in a "black and white" world. The truth is every bit as gray as these wolves.

And for those of you who so dearly like to type cast and pigeon hole others, let me say I fully support the reintroduction of wolves into their historic environs. Some of my most memorable days afield have been in good wolf country, where we would see them almost daily. Magnificent creatures. They do, however, have to be managed like any other top tier predator. Folks trying to make a living via livestock must be allowed to protect their herds and flocks from them. The politics of the big city wolf lovers, who will only ever see one airbrushed onto the side of a van, need to take a back seat to the needs of the locals who have to deal with them.

And that is where videos like this do more harm than good. Folks who have absolutely no idea what is really going on out there latch onto them as "the truth", and continue to force their opinions (from the comfort of their high rise condos in L.A., New York, Portland, or wherever) upon those who are living with these animals. This video does certainly contain elements of truth, but it goes far beyond that, ascribing massive changes in the environment to a single factor. A single very emotional factor, at least for some. It does a disservice to those who are out there in the woods, fighting the good fight of environmental and wildlife management. It vastly over-simplifies the cause and affect model, energizing the clueless tree hugging bambiists into actions that are in the long run detrimental to their cause.

Jeff, that is as accurate an assessment as I have ever read. I wish I could relate here all my personal experiences over the past 18 years with the ESA, the FWS, various environmental groups, and a small fish. But you have done better in 3 paragraphs than I could with 300 pages. Thanks.
DG

[berettafan]

Dave that was a great post by higgy.

On a separate note the Liam Nieson flick 'the grey' is a great movie.

[Jolly Amaranto]

An then there were the massive forest fires a few years back that had a huge impact on the same environment influencing many of the same changes attributed to the wolfs in the video. It is all very complex.

[cashflyer]

Yeah.... but who wants a van mural of a forest fire??

[flatbutt]

Bambi Meets Godzilla Original (1969) - YouTube