If you don't know a 2x4 isn't actually 2"x4".....

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by emcon5

"led by the district attorneys of Marin, Los Angeles, Monterey, San Joaquin and Stanislaus counties"

It was a government shakedown.

Follow the money. Fat government won't cut costs, obviously needs to find a way to take in more money. Sue one of those big evil rich corporations - perfect! Consumer prices go up to cover lost revenue, citizens suffer.

This is a lawsuit that would be thrown out by anyone with even an inkling of common sense. 2x4s don't measure 2x4. Products made from naturally grown materials don't measure out to an exact or consistent dimension.

[JJ 911SC]

There is even better.

I got a 2x2 from Lowe's, so one would think that no matter WTF 2 will be, it should be square.

Nooooooooooooooo, ⅛" smaller on one side.

Some people would say who care but when you are inflicted with a measurement disease

[TimT]

2x4's have been that same size (1.5 x 3.5) since the day after they switched from using logs for houses (aka log cabins) to using planks...

No.. My pre depression house has "real" 2x4 studs and "real" 2x8 joists...

It makes it a pain in the ass when I want to do some remodeling, etc.. or even put in a new replacement window... "real" 3/4" T&G sheathing + "real" 2x4 Studs + lath and horeshair plaster = a nightmare of making shims... ...

We buy specialty cut clear select lumber for our catwalks above our sound stages to replace old damaged lumber because the original lumber for the walking surfaces is like 70 years old and not made commercially anymore. I think its true 1" by 6".

One reason some old obsolete structures have great value is for old growth and true dimensional wood that they possess... My cousin owns a property in the Berkshires, with a barn and 4 houses on it, the oldest dates to 1670....

The mid 1800's barn was valued at more than the rest of the structures because of the quality of the wood... She won't sell it...

Home Despot,, and Blowes piss me off to an extreme.... there is only one independent lumber yard near my house now, where there used to be one in every town.

[Jeff Higgins]

Up here in the Pacific Northwest, one of our old time hardware/home improvement stores was known as Pay'N'Pack (anyone remember the old Pride of Pay'N'Pack unlimited hydro? Kicked the Miss Budweiser's and Atlas Van Line's collective asses for years...). At any rate, they went bankrupt, to be replaced by Eagle Hardware, which was ostensibly owned and operated by the old Pay'N'Pack management. Well, it went under as well, to be replaced by Lowe's. The local joke is that "Lowe's" stands for "less of what Eagle stocked". They are well known for their poor quality, poor support, and poor service.

It would not surprise me in the least if they were selling 2x4's that were even smaller than 1.5x3.5. That would be right up their alley. And imagine the frustration of trying to do a remodel using 1.25x3.25 (or whatever undersize they are selling) in a home that used "real" 1.5x3.5 "2x4's".

This is what we pay our gubmint weights and measures folks to enforce. If Lowe's was in fact selling lumber that is undersize (per whatever industry standard is being used), then they need to be fined and it needs to be publicized. This is not gubmint overreach, this is holding corporation(s) responsible for selling what they say they are selling. Lowe's wasn't. They got caught.

[Por_sha911]

In the name of political correctness we need to sue the state of Kalifornia. They use the letters CA which is false advertising. Ca is on the element chart as calcium.

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

It would not surprise me in the least if they were selling 2x4's that were even smaller than 1.5x3.5. That would be right up their alley. And imagine the frustration of trying to do a remodel using 1.25x3.25 (or whatever undersize they are selling) in a home that used "real" 1.5x3.5 "2x4's".

Actually, that's why you measure everything 'on center.' Doesn't matter how wide the beam is - if you start and end on-center, everything should square up correctly...

-Z

[upwardr]

In Canada we're metric, apparently but we call them 2x4?, should be 38 x 89 x .

WTF we turned metric about 1975 still haven't figured that mess out. Framing still has to be done to suit standard sheets.

My home was built with real 2" x 4" can I sue and have all the walls rebuilt using the new 1.5 x 3.5

This ruling is just too funny

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Z-man

Actually, that's why you measure everything 'on center.' Doesn't matter how wide the beam is - if you start and end on-center, everything should square up correctly...

-Z

If you were replacing studs in a wall with wider lumber, that would pose a problem. Unless you were going for that new age wavy look.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Z-man

Actually, that's why you measure everything 'on center.' Doesn't matter how wide the beam is - if you start and end on-center, everything should square up correctly...

-Z

In some cases yes, you are absolutely correct. It really depends upon what you are doing. Say, for instance, re-shaping, enlarging, moving, or making smaller a window. You're farting around with an existing wall. You would sure like the siding to be flush, and the sheetrock to be flush with what was already there when you are done. Doesn't matter if you've measured everything on center - the end result is the new framing pieces are narrower, and the siding and sheetrock will look like hell if they get sucked down to the new pieces.

I think a lot of guys on this thread are missing the point. Lowe's is not being fined for selling "undersize" 2x4's that really measure 1.5x3.5. That really would be silly. Everybody knows that would be silly, including, I suspect, the D.A.'s and the court. No, they were busted for selling 2x4's that were even smaller than that, that were not the accepted industry standard.

While we would all love for this to be another "stupid gubmint" story, it's anything but. It's an effective government story, wherein they actually took effective measure against a company that was cheating its customers. And, undoubtedly, causing an awful lot of those customers a good deal of aggravation and, ultimately, some degree of loss financially. I'm sure those evil gubmint agencies were receiving a fair number of complaints as unsuspecting customers got home and tried to work with these undersize materials.

[Don Ro]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

The problem is CA does have a disproportionate percentage of dumbass judges (and dumbass lawyers, dumbass politicians and just plain dumbasses in general).

+
I left in '08...sold property and business.
CA had 40 yrs. of Liberal legislative regulation ...wore me out.
Retired a few years before I intended...just to get out.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

While we would all love for this to be another "stupid gubmint" story, it's anything but.

SSSHHHHHhhhhhhh, pipe down! You're ruining the narrative. Company cheating its customers and getting caught? That's not a fun story at all. Venial and corrupt state officials? That's what I'm talkin' about!

[island911]

I can't find the numbers?

Just what type of under-sizing happened here?

And just what type of tolerance is expected when buying the cheapest of the the cheap, Too-bu-fer's ?

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

In some cases yes, you are absolutely correct. It really depends upon what you are doing. Say, for instance, re-shaping, enlarging, moving, or making smaller a window. You're farting around with an existing wall. You would sure like the siding to be flush, and the sheetrock to be flush with what was already there when you are done. Doesn't matter if you've measured everything on center - the end result is the new framing pieces are narrower, and the siding and sheetrock will look like hell if they get sucked down to the new pieces.

Isn't that what shims are for?!?!?

I kid... I kid...

I understand now - I wasn't thinking three-dimensionally (thickness of the wall).

-Z

[emcon5]

Originally Posted by dfhdfyufyu

A law-suit about the actual dimensions of 2x4's?

bot reported, 1 pixel image removed from quote.

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by dfhdfyufyu

A law-suit about the actual dimensions of 2x4's?

Originally Posted by emcon5

bot reported, 1 pixel image removed from quote.

While you see the image and web address in the quote, it get strip automatically when you post.

[island911]

Just because you don't see it does not mean that it's not there.

What I expect the troll s doing is getting a count of how many times (and when) this thread is clicked.

Good catch, Tom.

[daepp]

How does that help? And who would monitor this thread?

[john70t]

Originally Posted by daepp

And who would monitor this thread?

Internet reputation companies, Lowes, the lumber industry, lawyers on both sides, various adware, etc
Anyone who wants to automate the collection of a large amount of aggregate data.