This is what happens when you smoke too much MJ

[cashflyer]

i just talked to my friend in CO. he said things are just fine.

Nope. People a dropping like flies.






[green text implied]

[Tilikum Turbo]

Originally Posted by JD159

I'm not even a user, I just can't stand the terrible arguments opposing MJ .

It's seriously the least of our worries right now. Legalize it, regulate it and tax it.

The argument that it is unhealthy and bad for you through prolonged and heavy use is suchhhhh a poor argument.

Gateway drug, nop. Most of the people I know, have done it. Most do not do it anymore. None have tried anything "harder"

Give me an argument with some substance!

MJ(especially this high-grade stuff now) stays in the system a LONG time: THC is a non-polar molecule that stays in the fatty tissues of the brain and body fat. That's why a single joint of this high-grade stuff can stay in the body for 7-30 days(under present gas-chromatography methods).

Consider surgery...want your doctor about to slice into you to be "faded"...get on that Boeing aircraft and look out that window...want that engineer who designed and stress tested those wings attached to be "faded"...or maybe you have been falsely accused of murder or rape...want your attorney "faded".

Now consider a nation of youth going on their merry way...half-baked.

I've known friends who NEVER stopped even for a day since their teen years, and have no concept it is to have a clear-head...that's as tragic as needing to drink every day(and claiming there is no problem)

[JD159]

Since we are aimlessly posting some crappy statistics...

In 2012, 10,322 people were killed in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for nearly one-third (31%) of all traffic-related deaths in the United States.

Cashflyer...

Your use of a Nancy Grace meme has hints of sarcasm. I can't tell if you are kidding or serious. Please advise.

[Tilikum Turbo]

The number of robberies from January through April fell by 4.8 percent from the same time in 2013, and assaults were down by 3.7 percent. Over all, crime in Denver is down by about 10 percent, though it is impossible to say whether changes to marijuana laws played any role in that decline.[/QUOTE]

Aging population here is a variable, and in every country where lead-gas was banned, a drop in crime was a found as a positive correlation. Lead in the body does some whacked shyte.

Of course, weed is a very powerful de-motivational drug, and in men(who predominately do the violent crimes), it also raises the estrogen level in the blood-stream, just as being overweight raises the estrogen level in men as the body struggles keeping fat-cells alive).

Remember folks...statistics is the study of GROUPS, not the individual. That's how insurance companies make their $$$

[JD159]

Originally Posted by Tilikum Turbo

MJ(especially this high-grade stuff now) stays in the system a LONG time: THC is a non-polar molecule that stays in the fatty tissues of the brain and body fat. That's why a single joint of this high-grade stuff can stay in the body for 7-30 days(under present gas-chromatography methods).

Consider surgery...want your doctor about to slice into you to be "faded"...get on that Boeing aircraft and look out that window...want that engineer who designed and stress tested those wings attached to be "faded"...or maybe you have been falsely accused of murder or rape...want your attorney "faded".

Now consider a nation of youth going on their merry way...half-baked.

I've known friends who NEVER stopped even for a day since their teen years, and have no concept it is to have a clear-head...that's as tragic as needing to drink every day(and claiming there is no problem)

Commonnnnn. This is a complete falsity! Just because it can be detected in the body does not mean it is having an effect!!!!

No matter how it gets into your system, it affects almost every organ in your body, and your nervous system and immune system, too. When you smoke pot, your body absorbs THC right away. (If you eat a baked good or another item, it may take much longer for your body to absorb THC, because it has to break down in your stomach before it enters your bloodstream). You may notice changes in your body right after you smoke. The effects usually stop after 3 or 4 hours.

Your examples, and your own personal example is concerning HEAVY PROLONGED USERS! Heavy prolonged anything is bad for you.

Your not giving me anything here that is substantial enough to warrant it to be universally illegal. Should we make prescription and over the country drugs illegal because the long term effects of heavy and prolonged use are negative? Please answer.

[Icemaster]

Watching grandmas smoke weed for the first time is so great

[Tilikum Turbo]

Originally Posted by JD159

Commonnnnn. This is a complete falsity! Just because it can be detected in the body does not mean it is having an effect!!!!

No matter how it gets into your system, it affects almost every organ in your body, and your nervous system and immune system, too. When you smoke pot, your body absorbs THC right away. (If you eat a baked good or another item, it may take much longer for your body to absorb THC, because it has to break down in your stomach before it enters your bloodstream). You may notice changes in your body right after you smoke. The effects usually stop after 3 or 4 hours.

Your examples, and your own personal example is concerning HEAVY PROLONGED USERS! Heavy prolonged anything is bad for you.

Your not giving me anything here that is substantial enough to warrant it to be universally illegal. Should we make prescription and over the country drugs illegal because the long term effects of heavy and prolonged use are negative? Please answer.

Have you studied any physiology, or how neurotransmitters work in neural networks in the brain, or what induces or reduces the transmission of information between synapses or pharmacology? That's part of what I do being a medical device engineer.

Subjective opinions don't supersede objective data which can be validated thru independent sources and experimentation(such as "that music was nice", versus during the day, with a fair amount of certainty without clouds, the sky will appear blue(unless your color blind))

Maybe because weed(like alcohol) is mainstream now and widely accepted, your having difficulty accepting that you simply cannot get around cause and effect.

You can get away with virtually ANYTHING, including smoking, drinking, excessive food consumption, etc. But like football, it's the 2nd Half which is usually the real kicker. How your going to 'arrive' at the later half of your life is up to you.

And I mean that in good health!

[nostatic]

Marijuana's long-term effects on the brain demonstrated -- ScienceDaily

""What's unique about this work is that it combines three different MRI techniques to evaluate different brain characteristics," said Dr. Sina Aslan, founder and president of Advance MRI, LLC and adjunct assistant professor at The University of Texas at Dallas. "The results suggest increases in connectivity, both structural and functional that may be compensating for gray matter losses. Eventually, however, the structural connectivity or 'wiring' of the brain starts degrading with prolonged marijuana use."

Tests reveal that earlier onset of regular marijuana use induces greater structural and functional connectivity. Greatest increases in connectivity appear as an individual begins using marijuana. Findings show severity of use is directly correlated to greater connectivity.

Although increased structural wiring declines after six to eight years of continued chronic use, marijuana users continue to display more intense connectivity than healthy non-users, which may explain why chronic, long-term users "seem to be doing just fine" despite smaller OFC brain volumes, Filbey explained."

[JD159]

Originally Posted by Tilikum Turbo

Have you studied any physiology, or how neurotransmitters work in neural networks in the brain, or what induces or reduces the transmission of information between synapses or pharmacology? That's part of what I do being a medical device engineer.

Subjective opinions don't supersede objective data which can be validated thru independent sources and experimentation(such as "that music was nice", versus during the day, with a fair amount of certainty without clouds, the sky will appear blue(unless your color blind))

Maybe because weed(like alcohol) is mainstream now and widely accepted, your having difficulty accepting that you simply cannot get around cause and effect.

You can get away with virtually ANYTHING, including smoking, drinking, excessive food consumption, etc. But like football, it's the 2nd Half which is usually the real kicker. How your going to 'arrive' at the later half of your life is up to you.

And I mean that in good health!

Nop not at all. I rely on an analytic skills combined with research. This topic isn't one I have the inclination to extensively research so I can barely break the surface on a technical level. However, most of the people in the positions to legislate MJ, be it both the advocates and oppositions, also do not have the physiological knowledge either.

Also, you will have research from both sides that claim to have objective data that it is either harmful or not harmful, both short and long term. If you say that is not the case, you can present data supporting your side, and i'll find data supporting mine - but then we would just be kicking tires.

Knowing both the short term and long term health effects of MJ is important, and should be researched, so that we can warn and educate appropriately.

However, ultimately the long term users will continue to binge, and will get the stuff from suppliers, whether it is legal or not. The recreational users will also still get the stuff from suppliers, whether it is legal or not.

I don't want my doctor faded, the engineer faded, or my attorney faded. I neither want my doctor, the engineer, or my attorney to take a swig of whiskey from a flask in their jacket pocket. I also do not want them sleep deprived, or taking any heavy painkillers, or on any other drug that may cause drowsiness.

I feel like we have digressed, because I am not arguing that it has no effect, or that those effects are in no way harmful, especially long term. I'm simply arguing that the relation between the cause and effect of MJ does not warrant illegalization, nor does it preclude some sort of apocalyptic decline in the function of society as a whole, because society as a whole will not transform into the two people in the original post upon it's legalization.

[Por_sha911]

I find it interesting that my observations of people who smoke pot (in another thread) is dismissed and not being scientific yet JD decides that his observations of people he knows is acceptable anecdotal evidence and no one howls.

But lets put all that aside.

Simple question: why is it OK to spend millions to campaign against smoking a filtered cigarette for health reasons but no one sees a problem with smoking unfiltered weed?

[nynor]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

I find it interesting that my observations of people who smoke pot (in another thread) is dismissed and not being scientific yet JD decides that his observations of people he knows is acceptable anecdotal evidence and no one howls.

But lets put all that aside.

Simple question: why is it OK to spend millions to campaign against smoking a filtered cigarette for health reasons but no one sees a problem with smoking unfiltered weed?

i don't care if people do either.

however, i do think that people do more harm to their lungs, overall, with cigarettes than with marijuana. how much marijuana does a person smoke in a day compared to how much a smoker of cigarettes smokes in a day?

i have no evidence, nor citation, but i'd bet that a person staying stoned all day does less damage than a person that smokes two packs+/day of cigarettes.

further, there is no medical reason to smoke tobacco. there are many benefits to smoking marijuana for certain patient types, such as those on chemotherapy. it is my opinion that we are seeing a backlash from the ludicrously strict laws prohibiting marijuana that we had in the past. it'll all settle out, IMO.

[JD159]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

I find it interesting that my observations of people who smoke pot (in another thread) is dismissed and not being scientific yet JD decides that his observations of people he knows is acceptable anecdotal evidence and no one howls.

But lets put all that aside.

Simple question: why is it OK to spend millions to campaign against smoking a filtered cigarette for health reasons but no one sees a problem with smoking unfiltered weed?

Which anecdotal evidence is it exactly that you disagree with?

And as for your simple question.

An estimated 42.1 million people smoke cigs in the states.
Similarly, more than 400,000 deaths each year are attributed to tobacco smoking. and another 8.6 million live with a serious illness caused by smoking.

I don't have a figure butI know the numbers will be astronomically lower when you compare weed. If MJ had those kinds of numbers, we would see similar campaigning.

[Por_sha911]

The numbers of deaths from smoking weed are not properly measured since the activity is hidden since has been is illegal AND legalizing it will remove the stigma that prevents more people from inhaling unfiltered burning leaves.

[JD159]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

The numbers of deaths from smoking weed are not properly measured since the activity is hidden since has been is illegal AND legalizing it will remove the stigma that prevents more people from inhaling unfiltered burning leaves.

Simple question. Which of my anecdotal evidence do you disagree with?

What numbers do you have? I'd like to compare them, even though they are not quite accurate.

A hookah pipe is legal, I believe that is inhaling unfiltered burning leaves. And it is not illegal to smoke unfiltered burning leaves. Why should it be illegal to smoke an unfiltered burning leaf? If i want to smoke a maple leaf, I damn well better be legally able to.

So is your issue with MJ or smoking an unfiltered leaf?

[john70t]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

Simple question: why is it OK to spend millions to campaign against smoking a filtered cigarette for health reasons but no one sees a problem with smoking unfiltered weed?

Tobacco cigarettes are no longer tobacco.
They add all kinds of poisonous additives which would be highly illegal by themselves.
(Why not throw asbestos in the blend while they are at it?)

The same is true with the drug wars.
As a direct result of these government policies, most MJ is no longer the wild natural plant with a slight psychotropic byproduct.
MJ is highly concentrated these days.

So the detrimental user aftereffects that the anti-drug people complain about....are the same ones they have helped create.

[nynor]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

The numbers of deaths from smoking weed are not properly measured since the activity is hidden since has been is illegal AND legalizing it will remove the stigma that prevents more people from inhaling unfiltered burning leaves.

so you think that there are a LOT of people out there that are now going to become regular users of MJ, because it is legal? you really think that the people that want to smoke MJ don't, because it was illegal?

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

The numbers of deaths from smoking weed are not properly measured since the activity is hidden since has been is illegal AND legalizing it will remove the stigma that prevents more people from inhaling unfiltered burning leaves.

People aren't smoking "leaves."

The study I linked to is from 2014 and was published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Science (PNAS - a top tier journal).

[Por_sha911]

Does smoking cannabis cause cancer? | Cancer Research UK

Cannabis smoke contains many of the same cancer causing substances (carcinogens) as tobacco - at least 50 of them.

Marijuana poses more risks than many realize

Although some studies have linked heavy marijuana smoking to lung cancer, the link isn't totally clear. But marijuana is associated with a variety of lung problems, including inflammation of the airways, symptoms of chronic bronchitis and an increased risk of pneumonia and respiratory infections, according to the New England Journal review.

Up to half of people who smoke marijuana daily become addicted.

Marijuana products today are far stronger than in the past, which may explain why more people are overdosing or getting into car accidents,

Does Smoking Marijuana Cause Lung Cancer

Since marijuana is illegal, it is hard to do the controlled studies that have been done with tobacco. Because of this, it helps to look at what we do know about marijuana:

Many of the carcinogens and co-carcinogens present in tobacco smoke are also present in smoke from marijuana.

Marijuana smoking does cause inflammation and cell damage, and it has been associated with pre-cancerous changes in lung tissue.

Marijuana has been shown to cause immune system dysfunction, possibly predisposing individuals to cancer.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by nostatic

People aren't smoking "leaves."

You're word-smithing. I was making a word picture of inhaling a burning plant. Trust me, I know all too well about pot and, unlike slick willie clinton... And please don't use the tired excuse that there are other forms of THC delivery since the great majority is firing up.

[nostatic]

Cannabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®) - National Cancer Institute

and...

Because cannabinoid receptors, unlike opioid receptors, are not located in the brainstem areas controlling respiration, lethal overdoses from Cannabis and cannabinoids do not occur.[1-4]

and...

Although cannabinoids are considered by some to be addictive drugs, their addictive potential is considerably lower than that of other prescribed agents or substances of abuse.[2,4] The brain develops a tolerance to cannabinoids.

Withdrawal symptoms such as irritability, insomnia with sleep electroencephalogram disturbance, restlessness, hot flashes, and, rarely, nausea and cramping have been observed. However, these symptoms appear to be mild compared with withdrawal symptoms associated with opiates or benzodiazepines, and the symptoms usually dissipate after a few days.

Unlike other commonly used drugs, cannabinoids are stored in adipose tissue and excreted at a low rate (half-life 1–3 days), so even abrupt cessation of cannabinoid intake is not associated with rapid declines in plasma concentrations that would precipitate severe or abrupt withdrawal symptoms or drug cravings.

Since Cannabis smoke contains many of the same components as tobacco smoke, there are valid concerns about the adverse pulmonary effects of inhaledCannabis. A longitudinal study in a noncancer population evaluated repeated measurements of pulmonary function over 20 years in 5,115 men and women whose smoking histories were known.[5] While tobacco exposure was associated with decreased pulmonary function, the investigators concluded that occasional and low-cumulative Cannabis use was not associated with adverse effects on pulmonary function (forced expiratory volume in the first second of expiration [FEV1] and forced vital capacity [FVC]).