This is what happens when you smoke too much MJ

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

You're word-smithing. I was making a word picture of inhaling a burning plant. Trust me, I know all too well about pot and, unlike slick willie clinton... And please don't use the tired excuse that there are other forms of THC delivery since the great majority is firing up.

If pot didn't work for you, then don't do it. People shouldn't take drugs like alcohol, pot, etc if they don't tolerate it or it adversely affects their life. But just because something was bad for one person doesn't mean it will be bad for everyone.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by JD159

They don't look employable, I will agree to that. They don't want to work, many people are equally as unemployable without MJ. Thus MJ alone is not a good indicator of employability. Similarly, if someone came into my office drunk, I would not want to hire them. Or if they came in hungover. Your right! We should make alcohol illegal! Oops, I meant MJ

So what your saying is that if something, after heavy and long term use, can be considered unhealthy, especially for the younger folk, it should be deemed an illegal substance and frowned upon?

Tobacco, soda, pizza, alcohol i.e. wine, beer spirits, television, pron, coffee, various prescription and over the counter drugs.

I'm not following your argument...

They would find it difficult to find employment whether they want to work or not. And if they are long term, heavy users...you are likely correct. They don't want to wory...or do anything but get high.

No. I would not make it illegal. It is already illegal like many dangerous drugs with little medicinal use.

Alcohol and tobacco woud never be legalized in the US now if they were illegal. Even so, the fact that other things are bad is not much of an argument to legalize something that is known to be dangerous.

I am not sure that coffee, pizza, and prescribed prescription drugs are equally unhealthy. That said, we are talking recreational use here...not medical.

[JD159]

Originally Posted by fintstone

They would find it difficult to find employment whether they want to work or not. And if they are long term, heavy users...you are likely correct. They don't want to wory...or do anything but get high.

No. I would not make it illegal. It is already illegal like many dangerous drugs with little medicinal use.

Alcohol and tobacco woud never be legalized in the US now if they were illegal. Even so, the fact that other things are bad is not much of an argument to legalize something that is known to be dangerous.

I am not sure that coffee, pizza, and prescribed prescription drugs are equally unhealthy. That said, we are talking recreational use here...not medical.

. In the US alone, more than 15 million people abuse prescription drugs, more than the combined number who reported abusing cocaine, hallucinogens, inhalants and heroin.

In 2005, 4.4 million teenagers (aged 12 to 17) in the US admitted to taking prescription painkillers, and 2.3 million took a prescription stimulant such as Ritalin. 2.2 million abused over-the-counter drugs such as cough syrup. The average age for first-time users is now 13 to 14.

CAUSE OF DEATHS

Depressants, opioids and antidepressants are responsible for more overdose deaths (45%) than cocaine, heroin, methamphetamine and amphetamines (39%) combined.

**How dangerous is it really, when it is not even mentioned in the comparison for drug related deaths, on a drug free world advocate website?

[john70t]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

And please don't use the tired excuse that there are other forms of THC delivery since the great majority is firing up.

They should be...
Trip instead of buzz.

The last time I tried the stuff was more than a decade ago messing with some dried leaves.
Ground into powder, cooked into plenty of butter on low heat, added to Giardelli brownie mix,
A mega stoner coworker said they were they best he'd had.
Lasted hours instead of 15 minutes.
Plenty 'o fiber as well.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by JD159

I'm not even a user, I just can't stand the terrible arguments opposing MJ .

It's seriously the least of our worries right now. Legalize it, regulate it and tax it.

The argument that it is unhealthy and bad for you through prolonged and heavy use is suchhhhh a poor argument.

Gateway drug, nop. Most of the people I know, have done it. Most do not do it anymore. None have tried anything "harder"

Give me an argument with some substance!

Current science says that you are wrong in everything you post including the "gateway drug" remark. Why bother to counter your ersonal bservations when scientific studies show otherwise? Logic claiming alcohol is bad and kills a lot of folks reallly isn't much of an argument to legalize another dangerous drug for purely recreational purposes (like marijuana)...just the opposite. The same is true with cigarettes.

As far as regulating it...if we could not regulate it before, what makes you think legalizing it will make it easier to regulate. So far, it has made it harder in Colorado where numerous children have become very sick due to edible varieties (candy bars). All they do is snag one from their stoner parents.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by JD159

. In the US alone, more than 15 million people abuse prescription drugs, more than the combined number who reported abusing cocaine, hallucinogens, inhalants and heroin.

In 2005, 4.4 million teenagers (aged 12 to 17) in the US admitted to taking prescription painkillers, and 2.3 million took a prescription stimulant such as Ritalin. 2.2 million abused over-the-counter drugs such as cough syrup. The average age for first-time users is now 13 to 14.

CAUSE OF DEATHS

Depressants, opioids and antidepressants are responsible for more overdose deaths (45%) than cocaine, heroin, methamphetamine and amphetamines (39%) combined.

**How dangerous is it really, when it is not even mentioned in the comparison for drug related deaths, on a drug free world advocate website?

What does any of that have to do with leagalizing another dangerous drug purely for receational purposes? Your argument seems to be more to ban presription drugs that can be dangerous if used improperly.

Is your solution to legalize cocaine, hallucinogens, inhalants, heroin and Marijuana and then more folks will die from them instead of misuse of other drugs?
.

[JD159]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Current science say that you are wrong in everything you post including the "gateway drug" remark. Why bother to counter your observations when scientific studies show otherwise?

************Results from the 2009
National Survey on Drug Use and Health:
Volume I. Summary of National Findings
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES*************




Please...

See how that tapers off? More people try MJ than they do cocaine. If your argument concerning all the scientific evidence that clearly states MJ to be a gateway drug, the other drugs would have a higher number of users.

[JD159]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Current science says that you are wrong in everything you post including the "gateway drug" remark.

And more...science...because that is what you want.

In 1999, drug czar Barry McCaffrey commissioned a major study on medical marijuana conducted by the venerable Institute of Medicine, which included an examination of marijuana's potential to lead to other drug use. In simple terms, the researchers explained why the gateway theory was unfounded:

Patterns in progression of drug use from adolescence to adulthood are strikingly regular. Because it is the most widely used illicit drug, marijuana is predictably the first illicit drug most people encounter. Not surprisingly, most users of other illicit drugs have used marijuana first. In fact, most drug users begin with alcohol and nicotine before marijuana -- usually before they are of legal age.
…
There is no conclusive evidence that the drug effects of marijuana are causally linked to the subsequent abuse of other illicit drugs.

In 2006, the University of Pittsburgh released a more thorough study in which researchers spent 12 years tracking a group of subjects from adolescence into adulthood and documented the initiation and progression of their drug use. The researchers found that the gateway theory was not only wrong, but also harmful to properly understanding and addressing drug abuse:

This evidence supports what’s known as the common liability model, an emerging theory that states the likelihood that someone will transition to the use of illegal drugs is determined not by the preceding use of a particular drug but instead by the user’s individual tendencies and environmental circumstances.

“The emphasis on the drugs themselves, rather than other, more important factors that shape a person’s behavior, has been detrimental to drug policy and prevention programs,” Dr. Tarter said. “To become more effective in our efforts to fight drug abuse, we should devote more attention to interventions that address these issues, particularly to parenting skills that shape the child’s behavior as well as peer and neighborhood environments.”

[john70t]

Calling mj "dangerous" while calling prescription drugs "can be dangerous" is counter to all historic evidence.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by JD159

************Results from the 2009
National Survey on Drug Use and Health:
Volume I. Summary of National Findings
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES*************




Please...

See how that tapers off? More people try MJ than they do cocaine. If your argument concerning all the scientific evidence that clearly states MJ to be a gateway drug, the other drugs would have a similar number of first timers.

Not only is that a very old study, but your logic is silly. You should be making a comparison between those who used MJ with those who didn't use it and went on to use cocaine, heroin, etc. to make the point you are trying to make.

Marijuana does not seem to make all who have tried it go on to harder drugs...but statistics show that having tried it increases the propensity to use harder drugs as compared to people who have not used marijuana.

[nynor]

fintstone, why is it that you are against people using MJ?

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by JD159

And more...science...because that is what you want.

Of course, I am talking current science...not old, discredited science. We have learned a lot since 1999.

Any chance you could source the info you are quoting?

[nynor]

2006 and 2009 aren't current enough for you? come on, fint.

[JD159]

http://www.upmc.com/media/newsreleases/2006/pages/no-smoking-gun.aspx

[JD159]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Of course, I am talking current science...not old, discredited science. We have learned a lot since 1999.

Any chance you could source the info you are quoting?

Current science says that you are wrong in everything you post including the "gateway drug" remark. Why bother to counter your ersonal bservations when scientific studies show otherwise?

My article was from 2006...and it is scientific...wanna take that back?

anndddddddd here is the OFFICIAL SCHOLARLY ARTICLE.

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/ajp.2006.163.12.2134

[Por_sha911]

Still, smoking unfiltered burning buds has some health issues to your body and then there is 2nd hand smoke.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by nynor

fintstone, why is it that you are against people using MJ?

I see not valid reason to legalize it for recreational use. Current science indicates it is a very dangerous drug. Most of the stereotypes turned out to be true regarding the dangers. If recent studies are correct (and they are the largest, most comprensive ever), it creates many health and societal problems.

Among those who are heavy smokers, studies show lower IQ, ambition, etc...higher work performance problems, etc.

We are already a welfare state where half the population chooses not to work and is supported by the rest. Why make the problem worse? While I can embrace the libertarian argument to let folks do as they choose, their damaging their ability to function/work has direct impact on the rest of society that helps support them. As long as we dug test folks before allowing them to receive means based social welfare...and they find a way to regulate/keep it from kids (seems a prescription would be best)...I don't care if a person smokes pot or eats Drano. As long as 20 years later, they don't ask for section 8 housing or SNAP to feed themself....much less 99 weeks of unemployment.

[JD159]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

Still, smoking unfiltered burning buds has some health issues to your body and then there is 2nd hand smoke.

I won't disagree with that at all.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by JD159

My article was from 2006...and it is scientific...wanna take that back?

What article? You did not post one or a link to one (wonder why?). The words you posted had info from 1999 and 2006. Yes, 2006 is also very old science. Try a study from 2013 or 2014.

[JD159]

Originally Posted by fintstone

What article? You did not post one or a link to one (wonder why?). The words you posted had info from 1999 and 2006. Yes, 2006 is also very old science. Try a study from 2013 or 2014.

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/ajp.2006.163.12.2134