Changing Ranger standards... sad but true.

[fintstone]

IMHO, if anything, the mission is tougher today. I would suspect that they would want them as big and strong and fast and tough as possible. Sorta like the NFL. The standards ought to be whatever is the best they can get out of whatever percentage they have available. Guys are much bigger and stronger than when I was that age, the standards ought to reflect that. They should be more challenging. You don't see them making taller, faster players in the NFL wear ankle weights to even things up for the lesser players.

I am pretty sure I can pass the current minimums (except the swimming) and I am old and only about 175 lbs. A monster that lives for this stuff like HH1944 is the kind of guy we need in elite combat forces.

[GH85Carrera]

Well the women need to be only 65 as strong as the men since they only get paid 65 % of men's wages.

[Laneco]

Forgive my ignorance, but of the original four training phases, why would you abandon "desert" when we've been at war in desert areas for a very, very long time now?

angela

[HHI944]

Originally Posted by Laneco

Forgive my ignorance, but of the original four training phases, why would you abandon "desert" when we've been at war in desert areas for a very, very long time now?

angela

I could be wrong, but I'd assume logistics played a fair role. The remaining 3 phases are all in a relatively tight radius of each other.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Laneco

Forgive my ignorance, but of the original four training phases, why would you abandon "desert" when we've been at war in desert areas for a very, very long time now?

angela

On the job training.

Cheaper.

[Reiver]

Originally Posted by Laneco

Forgive my ignorance, but of the original four training phases, why would you abandon "desert" when we've been at war in desert areas for a very, very long time now?

angela

That element was a later addition to the course....money and time caused its demise.

[wayner]

I wish the rangers, seals etc. would stop discriminating against skinny unfit guys like me.

[jhynesrockmtn]

This will be interesting to live through vicariously. My son starts 4/19 and is 4 weeks from finishing up his 5 month 2nd lieutenant BOLC school. He's spending the 3 weeks in between continuing his physical training. He just dropped off a guy he met and has become friends for his 4th attempt. Ben said about 5% make it through on time their first time through. Not sure how accurate that is. He's in great shape, fingers crossed. He may be in the first group with women in it.

On a side note, I hired a guy to do some work for me last year that had just gotten out of the infantry. He was on the shorter side and an avid weightlifter. 265 pounds when he started ranger school a few years ago. He didn't make it through. Got so dehydrated and lost so much weight after 6 weeks they put him in the hospital. He had lost over 60 pounds. His body type and muscle mass were not a good match for the physical requirements of the school. In hindsight he said he trained all wrong. Should have been building lean muscle and endurance not weightlifting constantly.

[HHI944]

Last I heard, graduation rate was nearly 50%....5% might be the number for selection to Regiment?

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by jhynesrockmtn

... His body type and muscle mass were not a good match for the physical requirements of the school. In hindsight he said he trained all wrong. Should have been building lean muscle and endurance not weightlifting constantly.

Yes, looking at the fitness test, it is more suited to a good runner/swimmer. That said, carrying a lot of gear on the long, fast hikes and the swim test will still require good upper body strength (but not mass). Of course, there is a lot more physical challenge than just the fitness test. The entire thing is physically challenging and will just wear them down over time.

[jhynesrockmtn]

Last I heard, graduation rate was nearly 50%....5% might be the number for selection to Regiment?

I think this is correct overall including recycles. I believe what my son was referring to was graduation in the minimum time which I believe is two months. This was an answer to my naïve question, when will you graduate? because I want to attend that.

[HHI944]

Here's what RTBn says

Ranger School Statistics

60% of all Ranger School failures occur in the first 4 days (“RAP Week”): RPA, Land Nav, Footmarch, CWSA.
30% of all Ranger School failures occur due to Personal Reasons: Admin, Lack of Motivation, Special Circumstances.
10% of all Ranger School failures occur due to Academics: Patrols, Peers, Serious Observation Report, Medical Issues.
Only 2.2% of all Ranger School failures are due to Patrols (Academic).
Only 5% of all Ranger School failures are due to Patrols, Patrols/Peers, Patrols/Peers/Spots (Academic).
50.13% Overall Graduation Rate last 6 years (FY 06-FY 11) 37.2% Ranger Graduates Recycle at least 1x Phase of Ranger School
75% of those who complete RAP week will eventually pass the Darby Phase and move on to the Mountain Phase. Darby Recycle Rate is approximately 15%.
94% of those who start the Mountain Phase will eventually pass and move on to the Florida Phase. Mountain Recycle Rate is approximately 18%.
98% of those who start Florida Phase will eventually pass and graduate Ranger School. Florida Recycle Rate is approximately 18%.

The United States Army | Fort Benning

That makes a 31.2% pass rate with no recycles

[ficke]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Well the women need to be only 65 as strong as the men since they only get paid 65 % of men's wages.

Women get the same pay and have lower standards, So in reality women make more than men in the US military.

[HHI944]

Female butter bars in advanced land nav.......

[LakeCleElum]

Steve - Thank you for your service as a Ranger and an Instructor.......

[Reiver]

Stats from the first Pre Ranger, the stats from the follow on Pre C's have been much worse.

- Class population: 122 total (male and female)
- Female population: 25
- Number of females that met all of the physical standards: 5
- Number of females allowed to continue even though they did not meet some of the physical standards: 11
- The biggest physical discriminator: Push-up event during the RPFT; 17 of the 25 females failed the push-up event
- 3 females failed the RTAC 6 mile ruck march in 90 minutes or less (Ranger school 12 mile ruck march in 3 hrs or less standard)
- 83% of the females passed the Land Navigation test

- Total female med drops: 8
- Total female LOM drops: 1
- Total female SOR drops: 1


You'll note that 11 females were 'allowed' to cont. even tho they did not meet the standard...that is a Chain of Command call and we know where the pressure for this 'success' comes from.
It appears presently that the Army will not be able to fill the 30 female slots for the first mixed class.
The females that got a go when they deserved a no go have about a snowballs chance in hell of being successful...not strong enough.

Don't have the stats on the last Pre R course but I hear only one female made the cut....looks like the 'hard chargers' were in the first course.

[HHI944]

I don't understand why they're giving them a go when they're just going to get a no-go in the first 3 days.....unless they flex the standards there as well......it's like the Marine IOC all over again.

[Reiver]

Originally Posted by HHI944

I don't understand why they're giving them a go when they're just going to get a no-go in the first 3 days.....unless they flex the standards there as well......it's like the Marine IOC all over again.

I believe they (powers that be not the RTB) are shooting for 30 female candidates so they'd have an even number of female Ranger buddies to pair up.

Does not look good for that number.

None of this crap meets the common sense experience test but we have to go there with this lib PC Shiite.

[yazhound]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Yes, looking at the fitness test, it is more suited to a good runner/swimmer. That said, carrying a lot of gear on the long, fast hikes and the swim test will still require good upper body strength (but not mass). Of course, there is a lot more physical challenge than just the fitness test. The entire thing is physically challenging and will just wear them down over time.

Endurance. Humping a ruck and the rest is mentally and physically challenging. The tough part being the mental part, that is where attitude and desire come to fruition. Slim, wirey, while not skinny-fat, guys have better success. Heavily muscled types seem to struggle more. And remember, it is not for purposes of just being able to complete the "getting there", but being able to perform the mission once you get there... worn, and tired and maybe hurt. Then of course the making it out too.

[jhynesrockmtn]

Endurance. Humping a ruck and the rest is mentally and physically challenging. The tough part being the mental part, that is where attitude and desire come to fruition. Slim, wirey, while not skinny-fat, guys have better success. Heavily muscled types seem to struggle more. And remember, it is not for purposes of just being able to complete the "getting there", but being able to perform the mission once you get there... worn, and tired and maybe hurt. Then of course the making it out too.

I hope and believe my son is training correctly. It's funny, when he was 12/13 playing little league, I swear it took him five minutes to run from 1st to 3rd. He just looked awkward. A few weeks ago he was 3rd in the 5 mile at IBOLC. He's strong but not over muscled. He is airborne certified. They sent him his sophomore year and has been to mountain warfare school as well. I'm just bracing myself to see him after he is done and knowing it will be most difficult for his Mom.